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  • 1Samildanach
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Dalek vehicle/shell = german Tiger tanks and their aura of invincible highly advanced german technology. Not that far-fetched to say someone was inspired by history.
    Ausrotten! Ausrotten! Ausrotten!!!!!!!

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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by 1Samildanach View Post
    (I realise that makes the Nazis sound like Daleks :P)
    Dalek vehicle/shell = german Tiger tanks and their aura of invincible highly advanced german technology. Not that far-fetched to say someone was inspired by history.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1Samildanach
    replied
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    Most of them would not have happened if USSR had not invaded Afghanistan in 1979 in the first place. Shit started rolling downhill from there. Before this, Middle-East was pretty quiet. AFG was also very modern islamic country compared to what it is today. Ashkanistan would be more appropriate name now. I am reluctant to guess if Gulf Wars would have happened or not.
    The USSR was asked for help by the government of the time (although it was the result of a revolution, it still had the legitimacy that comes with holding power [what's that idiom, 'Possession is nine-tenths of the law'?] and having widespread support). Things started to be stabilised, girls were going to school, women were permitted to do as they pleased, etcetera, etcetera. The USA and Pakistan couldn't stand by while something so dastardly happened, so they found some Godly reactionaries (including a certain someone from the bin Laden family) and funnelled them support.

    After a while, and due to a mixture of reasons, the USSR withdrew and the insurgents took over. The local fighters became the Taliban, many foreign fighters went on to form/join Al-Qaeda (which can be translated as "the database", in reference to the militants recruited by the CIA).

    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    Btw, Stalin is heroic historic figure in Russia at the moment. Time to time I am hearing some bust depicting him opened here or there. Can you imagine Hitler being offically "good guy" in German-speaking countries? And little boys playing in net using tags like "Abwehr",, "SS", "Hitler" and so forth with nobody really caring?
    To be fair, he did get them through the Great Patriotic War, where they faced a military which no-one had yet been able to stop, and a nation which aimed to exterminate and enslave them (I realise that makes the Nazis sound like Daleks :P). One can argue that the feat require a ruthless determination that few possess, and what he achieved in the war certainly was impressive, whether or not you think his methods were necessary.

    'Course, one of the reasons they initially struggled to defend their territory -and to invade Finland- was that Stalin had decimated the army with his paranoid purges. He consistently placed little value on human life (though some would say that's a consistent theme in Russia, even with him being Georgian), paranoid (admittedly, there were people/nations out to get him/the USSR), and often went straight for brutal options.

    In summary, he was not a ruler I would want, nor a nice person, but he does deserve respect. There is reason to see him as a hero (and he does seem to have been motivated by the greater good), it's just that the other side of the scales has an awful lot of nasty stuff weighing it down (which easily happens if you believe the ends justifies the means).

    In contrast, the USA has a whole day celebrating Christopher Columbus, who raped, murdered, and pillaged his way around the Caribbean. He enslaved the locals, worked them to death, sold children (his writings mentioned girls as young as nine) as sex slaves, and so on. He was primarily motivated by greed.

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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    And here is the catch you and some others are still not getting. Swastika, or anything else related to nazi symbolic is illegal.
    Nazi managed to piss off more or less every first world nation.

    But at the same time symbols for regimes/or connected to regimes who have caused equal or multiple times of deaths are.. well nothing special or well, even get actively advertised. Somehow such symbols are okay, both politically and in the minds of most people.
    not pissed off enough nations, or the actual winner of the war.

    I also argue against automatic mental association. It's akin to racism. You are stereotyping people of distinction (be it nationality or skin color) with "symbols of evil" and find them automatically suspect of crime based on history and on your own preconceptions.
    To be fair, most people here were surprised more than suspecting them of crimes.
    And little boys playing in net using tags like "Abwehr",, "SS", "Hitler" and so forth with nobody really caring?
    This happens already, btw.

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  • anda_skoa
    replied
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    But at the same time symbols for regimes/or connected to regimes who have caused equal or multiple times of deaths are.. well nothing special or well, even get actively advertised. Somehow such symbols are okay, both politically and in the minds of most people.
    Different countries deal differently with their past.

    Some believe that things associated with a cult that caused crimes against humanity should not be used in the forseeable future, some might consider it unimportant, spur of the moment things.

    Cheers,
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • aht0
    replied
    "I do not argue against it, by the way." - must be read As "I do not argue against it, by the way as long as you treat all of them same way. Somehow it escaped my attention and I can't edit this:S

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  • aht0
    replied
    Originally posted by dimko View Post
    Dont get me started there, and all wars nato started in middle east?
    Most of them would not have happened if USSR had not invaded Afghanistan in 1979 in the first place. Shit started rolling downhill from there. Before this, Middle-East was pretty quiet. AFG was also very modern islamic country compared to what it is today. Ashkanistan would be more appropriate name now. I am reluctant to guess if Gulf Wars would have happened or not.

    Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
    No. Maybe (and that is a very unlikely maybe) not internationally, but the uproar in Austra itself would be tremendous.
    And that is for the SS name part thing, using the swastika would even be illegal.
    Cheers,
    _
    And here is the catch you and some others are still not getting. Swastika, or anything else related to nazi symbolic is illegal. Insane uproar, name-calling... whatever you name it - you get it. I do not argue against it, by the way.

    But at the same time symbols for regimes/or connected to regimes who have caused equal or multiple times of deaths are.. well nothing special or well, even get actively advertised. Somehow such symbols are okay, both politically and in the minds of most people.

    I also argue against automatic mental association. It's akin to racism. You are stereotyping people of distinction (be it nationality or skin color) with "symbols of evil" and find them automatically suspect of crime based on history and on your own preconceptions.

    Btw, Stalin is heroic historic figure in Russia at the moment. Time to time I am hearing some bust depicting him opened here or there. Can you imagine Hitler being offically "good guy" in German-speaking countries? And little boys playing in net using tags like "Abwehr",, "SS", "Hitler" and so forth with nobody really caring?

    Leave a comment:


  • nomadewolf
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post

    So it's ok to start new wars and kill people cause the previous wars started due to stupidity? Ok makes sense.
    Allah wills it!

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  • caligula
    replied
    Originally posted by dimko View Post

    Dont get me started there, and all wars nato started in middle east?
    So it's ok to start new wars and kill people cause the previous wars started due to stupidity? Ok makes sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • nomadewolf
    replied
    I don't know how this turned into a WWII discussion, but it's way more interesting!

    Leave a comment:

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