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  • Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Come on, quit this shit already.
    It is what it is man, there isn't anything at all I can do about it. Unfortunately. If I could smack Intel silly, I would.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
      Availability of souce is one thing. Ability to change code in particular system is another.

      If you've failed to learn the story behing GPLv3: under GPLv2 it is perfectly legal to TiVoIzE device. So you could get source, change it, but who told device is obliged to run it? GPLv2 failed to foresee this kind of treachery. So if device rejects your code ... its ok under GPLv2. BSD/Apache are "permissive" so they do not care. Good luck to udpade drivers. Btw, most Qualcomm devices around are good at this kind of crap. Major privacy invasion is a bonus (crap comes in large packages).
      LG spent a fortune on legal advice on how to do tivoisation properly. they actually consider it to be a FAILURE if you even NOTICE that they are committing criminal copyright infringement in their products.

      So it is about getting crap-free hardware without fatal bugs. Especially in large complicated firmwares.
      ... and having the right to replace and upgrade the firmware. why do you think the xda-developers forum is full of "unlock firmware" hacks for HTC smartphones?

      there's a story worth re-telling here, about the Fairphone 1. Fairphone decided to have a phone made according to ethical principles of the "Fair Trade" meme which is common to co-ops. so they did this, successfully, helping the factory to set up a pension plan for the workers, making sure that the materials were conflict-free and so on. generally making sure that the product's good for the environment and so on.

      what they *didn't* do - because they had absolutely no experience whatsoever of what's *really* important in an ethical device - is ask for the full source code for the OS. so when the security vulnerability reports started to come in 18 months later, they went back to the factory to track down the firmware sources, only to find that it was a Mediatek-sourced GPL-violating BINARY ONLY deal where the factory had absolutely NO IDEA what this thing called "source code" is.

      so those ethically-manufactured, environmentally-responsible devices basically were LANDFILL (in DIRECT violation of every principle that they set up the Fairphones coop for...) or had to be used by the users as a continuing and ongoing threat to their security and privacy.

      a hard lesson for Fairphones to learn, neh?

      and it's one that they haven't really learned, because the Fairphone 2 uses.... a qualcomm chipset.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by duby229 View Post

        It is what it is man, there isn't anything at all I can do about it. Unfortunately. If I could smack Intel silly, I would.
        that's not why systemcrasher had an issue with what you said: we all agree that the situation's not good - what systemcrasher rightly had issue with was that you criticised *him* (personally) at the same time, in effect blaming him for the situation which is entirely out of his (and our) control. which isn't a very nice thing to do. we're a community: fighting and blaming each other doesn't help except maybe let off steam for one person but aggravating others in the process of doing so just circulates the frustration.

        now, about "smacking intel silly" .... yeah i can see how that would also help relieve frustration but again it's a "fly buzzing round an elephant". would it not be better to track down alternative strategies that entirely *bypass* these companies? would that not be more productive?

        there's a guy whom i met recently who invited me to ask one of the most powerful questions i've ever encountered, and it's this: "if you KNEW that you COULDN'T FAIL, what one thing would you most want do, more than anything in the whole world?"

        he then goes on to point out that once you've answered that question, it stands to reason that this should be the thing that you should be doing!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lkcl View Post

          that's not why systemcrasher had an issue with what you said: we all agree that the situation's not good - what systemcrasher rightly had issue with was that you criticised *him* (personally) at the same time, in effect blaming him for the situation which is entirely out of his (and our) control. which isn't a very nice thing to do. we're a community: fighting and blaming each other doesn't help except maybe let off steam for one person but aggravating others in the process of doing so just circulates the frustration.

          now, about "smacking intel silly" .... yeah i can see how that would also help relieve frustration but again it's a "fly buzzing round an elephant". would it not be better to track down alternative strategies that entirely *bypass* these companies? would that not be more productive?

          there's a guy whom i met recently who invited me to ask one of the most powerful questions i've ever encountered, and it's this: "if you KNEW that you COULDN'T FAIL, what one thing would you most want do, more than anything in the whole world?"

          he then goes on to point out that once you've answered that question, it stands to reason that this should be the thing that you should be doing!!
          I think you misunderstand. In no way is it his fault that Intel graphics are so slow, but certainly is his fault for not recognizing it and blaming it on everything else he could think of.

          Also isn't "bypassing" Intel exactly the right thing to do? It seems like your advise is exactly the same as my advise, just worded differently.

          EDIT: And the smacking Intel silly thing, yeah, fly buzzing around an elephant seems like an appropriate metaphor. Essentially exactly what I said, I don't have the power or stance to do anything about it, Although I wish I could. I said one metaphor, you said a different one that means exactly the same thing.
          Last edited by duby229; 07-11-2016, 02:07 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
            Realistically, most apps and UI toolkits these days are still just plain 2D.
            Well, the resulting rendering is 2D, but this is often done through "3D" APIs such as OpenGL, or maybe in the future, Vulkan.
            Not just the relatively recent scene graph based (QtQuick for Qt, GTK+ Scene Graph for GTK+, Evas for EFL, etc), most multmedia frameworks with video capability provide OpenGL based output such, videoplayers often use it to compose control on top of the video.

            Applications that display huge documents of some kind often haven OpenGL based rendering backends, e.g. LibreOffice, Krita.

            And that doesn't even touch the use cases where the massively parallel hardware facilities are used for calculations.

            Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
            Furthermore, mobile SoC vendors aren't anyhow eager to implement "desktop" GL.

            Maybe, but you don't need desktop GL for any of the above.


            Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
            So realistically, those who want full-fledged desktop OpenGL got three things to choose from: AMD, Nvidia, and Intel. Even then, it is not as simple as that.

            Absolutely, but remember again: hardware accelerated graphics doesn't equate 3D.
            3D is one of the use case and yes any significant usage of 3D will require powerful enough hardware.
            But there are lots of use case that build on advanced rendering but do not need that kind of hardware.


            Cheers,
            _

            Comment


            • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              It is what it is man, there isn't anything at all I can do about it.
              I know, but we cannot let you spew bs without any proof.

              Can you please tell me what the hell has your theory to do with what SystemCrasher said?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                I know, but we cannot let you spew bs without any proof.

                Can you please tell me what the hell has your theory to do with what SystemCrasher said?
                Perhaps you should read the post I was responding to again. He was trying to make excuses at every turn and point the finger in every other direction except where it belongs. GUI's have been composited for years now. Applications have been using 3d rendering techniques for decades now. It's not news that Intel hardware performs horribly in those scenarios.

                Basically don't choose hardware that is incapable of performing the everyday tasks you need it to do. Which is exactly what he did, and then blamed it on the rendering techniques used to perform tasks. And then what made it worse is that he was completely oblivious to it.
                Last edited by duby229; 07-11-2016, 03:07 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                  Perhaps you should read the post I was responding to again. He was trying to make excuses at every turn and point the finger in every other direction except where it belongs. GUI's have been composited for years now. Applications have been using 3d rendering techniques for decades now. It's not news that Intel hardware performs horribly in those scenarios.
                  ??????
                  He is talking of mobile SoCs and their drivers. Only place where he isn't is when he makes an example of a program coded like shit, like Google Maps that to render a bunch of low-poly 3D murders GPU for lulz.

                  Basically don't choose hardware that is incapable of performing the everyday tasks you need it to do.
                  Sure, the solution isn't fixing Google Maps abnormal resource usage, it's buying a gaming laptop to run a fucking low-poly 3D map.
                  Last edited by starshipeleven; 07-11-2016, 03:43 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    ??????
                    He is talking of mobile SoCs and their drivers. Only place where he isn't is when he makes an example of a program coded like shit, like Google Maps that to render a bunch of low-poly 3D murders GPU for lulz.

                    Sure, the solution isn't fixing Google Maps abnormal resource usage, it's buying a gaming laptop to run a fucking low-poly 3D map.
                    Of course, I should have guessed.... Intel fans thinking a capable GPU must mean gaming.... Maybe you should be asking why Intel hardware can't run a low poly 3d map instead.

                    (Welcome back to 1996)
                    Last edited by duby229; 07-11-2016, 03:51 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                      Maybe you should be asking why Intel hardware can't run a low poly 3d map instead.
                      Because it is coded like shit, as the same hardware that is murdered by Google Maps can play TF2 fine (low settings), Sanctum2, Ceres, (games I use on my HD4000)

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