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An Apparent Exodus Continues At OwnCloud

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  • #21
    Originally posted by elvenbone View Post
    - You cannot access your files easily without having syncthing installed and setup to synchronize everything
    This is the only real issue, yes.
    It's not a huge issue for me as I usually have 64GB sdcards and I don't sync my iso files collection on the mobile.

    If I really needed it I would setup a network share over WebDAV, and mount it in Android with a random app that does so.

    - Accessing them via FTP leaves you without instantaneous PDF-previews (OC uses pdf.js), video and image previews, etc.
    I'd call this a minor feature, maybe because I don't usually show previews even in file managers.

    - Sharing via FTP is even worse: Can you easily setup a share, view who you shared it with and automatically restrict each share to an expiry date and an individual password?
    Yes I can. ftp has per-user passwords goddamnit.

    - If you can because you created the best FTP client ever, can you do these things from your mobile phone?
    yes, calling scripts that automate stuff over ssh.
    Can ask my server to do whatever I wrote in a script when back home. This specific ftp settings change functionality isn't implemented because I don't use it (I have a public folder and that's it), but I do similar things.
    Look up apps like Script Kitty or SSH Button.

    - Does FTP automatically create zip archives if you want do download a folder with all files in it?
    No, in the rare occasions where I need to share loads of stuff i make a zip manually.

    - Can you look up your calendar events from an airport terminal? No, you cannot install your favorite PIM client there.
    I DO NOT WANT the airport terminal to know a shit about my stuff.

    Anyway, OwnCloud is a CalDAV server just like the one I talked about, any CalDAV server address will work.

    But the above are examples of why Owncloud exists and why so many people love it despite its flaws.
    As I said, my main gripes are on the security side (also performance as my miniserver is a low-power ARM NAS), not features.
    Its safety standards would be ok for a intranet-only webapplication, this thing goes on the internet man, and it has all your data in it.
    I trust more Google or even Mega than OwnCloud.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by ofutur View Post
      but a lot has changed over the past couple of years and the code looks much better, is documented, tested on large installations, etc.
      Not trusting it. I've seen enough and the bigger issue isn't the code but the development model.
      Go read the thread about Debian dropping OwnCloud from their repos for others talking about this in more detail.

      Writing something in go doesn't magically make it better or safer.
      Go is a compiled language, the binary runs on its own, php runs on a server, so you need to add up all that stuff.

      Plus, go is not usually used by webapplications, php does.

      If there are so many issues with it, then you must be at the top of the leaderboard on hackerone.
      I don't see why I should patch their holes for a few dimes.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Not trusting it. I've seen enough and the bigger issue isn't the code but the development model.
        Go read the thread about Debian dropping OwnCloud from their repos for others talking about this in more detail.
        That's such a bogus argument. Using deb packages for a web app is just a bad idea, especially if you run more than one web app on the server. Users are better off with Debian dropping ownCloud from their repositories. At least now they'll get safer, working updates.

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Go is a compiled language, the binary runs on its own, php runs on a server, so you need to add up all that stuff.
        So? The compiled go binary is still a server and can have vulnerabilities.
        Go is not designed to serve web pages, so syncthing would need to use a framework to be able to offer more than a stats dashboard, but afaik that's not their goal. All they want is to sync files, just like syncany and tons of other sync tools.

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        I don't see why I should patch their holes for a few dimes.
        Don't worry, others are actually not that focused on money and welcome a challenge.
        Last edited by ofutur; 05-27-2016, 11:18 AM.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by ofutur View Post
          That's such a bogus argument. Using deb packages for a web app is just a bad idea, especially if you run more than one web app on the server. Users are better off with Debian dropping ownCloud from their repositories. At least now they'll get safer, working updates.
          I was saying that there is more technical talk on OC issues in that thread.


          So? The compiled go binary is still a server and can have vulnerabilities.
          What part of "you need to add up all that stuff." you did not get?

          Go is not designed to serve web pages,
          You're a complete moron. Hint: go was designed by Google to make web applications
          see here on how to write a tiny webserver with go https://golang.org/doc/articles/wiki/

          so syncthing would need to use a framework to be able to offer more than a stats dashboard
          You're speaking out of your ass, Syncthing has an interactive web interface already.

          but afaik that's not their goal. All they want is to sync files, just like syncany and tons of other sync tools.
          This is correct.

          Don't worry, others are actually not that focused on money and welcome a challenge.
          Don't worry, Microsoft will buy OwnCloud in the near future.
          Last edited by starshipeleven; 05-27-2016, 11:03 AM.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            I was saying that there is more technical talk on OC issues in that thread.
            Mostly highlighting why it's not a good idea to package a web app as a deb.

            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            What part of "you need to add up all that stuff." you did not get?
            You can run php as a webserver too, that doesn't give you some of the things you need from a proper web server though.
            By the time you've added to go what you need to process images, have http2, webdav support, etc. you've also added up "stuff"
            Your argument is pointless.

            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            You're a complete moron. Hint: go was designed by Google to make web applications
            see here on how to write a tiny webserver with go https://golang.org/doc/articles/wiki/
            No, or Google would have delivered a modern, fully-fledged web server with it instead of a bunch of libraries. There are no production ready web frameworks available yet.
            Go is designed to write Rest APIs and to replace C to write daemons and perform background tasks, fast. It's excellent to write your own server.
            Read up on how it's being used.

            It wouldn't actually be a bad idea to have the ownCloud backend written in Go, but there are too many missing required libraries for that to be a reality any time soon. Plus go hosting is mainly targeted at developers. It's not as simple as dropping pages via FTP and opening a browser window.

            Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
            You're speaking out of your ass, Syncthing has an interactive web interface already.
            Wow, a web interface! Which does what exactly? From their website: "Configure and monitor Syncthing"
            We can all see from the screenshots how basic it is and that's why I called it a stats dashboard. Count your files and folders, see the attached devices, etc.
            They're trying to get the basics right before adding more features, but the GUI can't compare to solutions like ownCloud, Pydio or Seafile.

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            • #26
              Why is everyone saying MS will buy out OwnCloud? OwnCloud dropped support for IIS two versions ago because it was to much hassle. Altough I stopped caring since version 8 got released and it pretty much killed all performance for small time users.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
                Why is everyone saying MS will buy out OwnCloud? OwnCloud dropped support for IIS two versions ago because it was to much hassle. Altough I stopped caring since version 8 got released and it pretty much killed all performance for small time users.
                It's being pushed by 2 people, one who either doesn't understand or wants to rewrite history, and another who is latching onto anything he can to shit on OwnCloud while pushing his own software.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                  Further this premise is nonsense, "Microsoft bought out skype so obviously they're going to buy out OwnCloud"... I'm sorry but that doesn't follow.
                  You're right, it doesn't follow. It's a straw-man argument; other than yourself, nobody has made this claim.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by ofutur View Post
                    You can run php as a webserver too,
                    php code 99% of the times runs inside a webserver as the interpreter is usually a webserver plugin. Why should it implement a webserver inside a webserver?
                    Yes I know that there are a bunch of php webservers out there.

                    No, or Google would have delivered a modern, fully-fledged web server with it instead of a bunch of libraries. There are no production ready web frameworks available yet.
                    Go is designed to write Rest APIs and to replace C to write daemons and perform background tasks, fast. It's excellent to write your own server.
                    Uhm, I said it is able to make a webserver, didn't I?

                    Wow, a web interface! Which does what exactly? From their website: "Configure and monitor Syncthing"
                    Yes, it's a dynamic webpage.
                    The server itself can handle dynamic webpages, not just static dashboards.

                    They're trying to get the basics right before adding more features,
                    Afaik Syncthing is going to be just file synching, not a full suite like OwnCloud and friends.

                    Pydio or Seafile.
                    Pydio is still php, no thanks.

                    Seafile I know little about, but from wikipedia it says it is in C and Python, I see stuff on github, I can at least test-drive it.

                    My NAS will need a day or so to compile the C tho.
                    Last edited by starshipeleven; 05-28-2016, 07:29 PM.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
                      Why is everyone saying MS will buy out OwnCloud?
                      I started it, but I'm just kidding about it.

                      OwnCloud dropped support for IIS two versions ago because it was to much hassle.
                      Afaik Apache runs fine on Windows, so you can install OwnCloud in a windows system anyway.

                      Originally posted by Luke_Wolf
                      It's being pushed by 2 people, one who either doesn't understand or wants to rewrite history, and another who is latching onto anything he can to shit on OwnCloud while pushing his own software.
                      You lack of understanding of sarcasm is amusing.

                      Also, I'm not pushing Synchthing, I'm just shitting on OwnCloud AND saying what I use currently.

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