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  • #11
    I totaly disagree with disagreeing - any process must be killed if it takes more than 10 seconds for it to close normally. Shutdown means shutdown, not do ten hours of works and then shutdown, if you want to do something, then do it, and dont shutdown you pc... Linux is just pathetic with these kind of bugs, while windows 10 sucks balls with its too deep integration with internet, retarded flat ui and is basically concentrating on brainwashing, linux still somehow manages to be worse at every aspect...

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    • #12
      Originally posted by pininety View Post
      I would disagree. I would say 90s is WAY to little. Just imagine some porgram doing a sync in the background (ownCloud client) and then you end up with a broken file jsut because it took more than 90s.
      Programs need to deal with that kind of stuff. What does this program do if it loses network connection, because you've just gone out of range of the WiFi hotspot you're connected to? What does it do if there's enough of a power outage to force a reboot? No... if it's in the middle of syncing something, it needs to deal with the fact that it might have to abort the process, without forcing the user to wait a couple of minutes, and without corrupting data.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by startas View Post
        I totaly disagree with disagreeing - any process must be killed if it takes more than 10 seconds for it to close normally. Shutdown means shutdown, not do ten hours of works and then shutdown, if you want to do something, then do it, and dont shutdown you pc... Linux is just pathetic with these kind of bugs, while windows 10 sucks balls with its too deep integration with internet, retarded flat ui and is basically concentrating on brainwashing, linux still somehow manages to be worse at every aspect...
        In Windows model any GUI application can block shutdown indefinitely by responding to system that it's not fine to shutdown. Windows actually asks this from every GUI process

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        • #14
          Originally posted by startas View Post
          I totaly disagree with disagreeing - any process must be killed if it takes more than 10 seconds for it to close normally. Shutdown means shutdown, not do ten hours of works and then shutdown, if you want to do something, then do it, and dont shutdown you pc... Linux is just pathetic with these kind of bugs, while windows 10 sucks balls with its too deep integration with internet, retarded flat ui and is basically concentrating on brainwashing, linux still somehow manages to be worse at every aspect...
          Time wait is a setting you can change, what about setting it to something you like?

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Delgarde View Post

            Programs need to deal with that kind of stuff. What does this program do if it loses network connection, because you've just gone out of range of the WiFi hotspot you're connected to? What does it do if there's enough of a power outage to force a reboot? No... if it's in the middle of syncing something, it needs to deal with the fact that it might have to abort the process, without forcing the user to wait a couple of minutes, and without corrupting data.
            ownCloud is just one example, there are hundrets of others where this does not work. Lets say your app has written some big file on disk, parts of it still in some buffer and waits for a sync of the disk or maybe an USB stick. Should systemd just kill it, maybe even destroy parts of your files? And how is your program supposed to "deal with this kind of stuff"? Not use buffers? Lets see the hate mail when your filesystem suddenly is slow as hell as every file is explicitly writen to disk one after the other.

            What could be done better is: Give the user the information he needs to debug it. Which application is blocking? Do not just show "Waitin for user session", instead say: User session waiting for x. If it is always the same app, I can investigate and fix it . ATM I have no clue where to look to fix it.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
              How on earth this is a systemd bug when another program is not exiting cleanly
              It's called the "Sinceya" effect... "Since you changed this, this other thing that has no relation to what was changed, is now breaking and I demand you fix it"

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              • #17
                Yes, windows asks if you want to terminate, and it also continues shutdown process, which gets resolved really fast anyway, a saw max a few seconds of wait time when such things appear, which is very rarely, like 1 time in 1 year. And default values shouldnt be such bad, it just drives me nuts when in linux you have to go through various files and change tens or hundreds of retarded standard values for various things when you do clean linux install...

                And this is systemd bug in a sense that i'm shuting down my computer, my work is done, and computer need to shut down. If any program has gone rogue, i dont care, systemd must kill it, but it seems that systemd is doing nothing to do its job.

                Btw, wtf is this phoronix forum bug, when every third button press results in comment field shrink/expand by one line ????
                Last edited by startas; 22 May 2016, 09:09 AM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by pininety View Post

                  ownCloud is just one example, there are hundrets of others where this does not work. Lets say your app has written some big file on disk, parts of it still in some buffer and waits for a sync of the disk or maybe an USB stick. Should systemd just kill it, maybe even destroy parts of your files? And how is your program supposed to "deal with this kind of stuff"? Not use buffers? Lets see the hate mail when your filesystem suddenly is slow as hell as every file is explicitly writen to disk one after the other.

                  What could be done better is: Give the user the information he needs to debug it. Which application is blocking? Do not just show "Waitin for user session", instead say: User session waiting for x. If it is always the same app, I can investigate and fix it . ATM I have no clue where to look to fix it.
                  Yeah, Windows has that too, more or less. You get told visibly which GUI processes block shutdown

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by startas View Post
                    Yes, windows asks if you want to terminate, and it also continues shutdown process, which gets resolved really fast anyway, a saw max a few seconds of wait time when such things appear, which is very rarely, like 1 time in 1 year. And default values shouldnt be such bad, it just drives me nuts when in linux you have to go through various files and change tens or hundreds of retarded standard values for various things when you do clean linux install...

                    And this is systemd bug in a sense that i'm shuting down my computer, my work is done, and computer need to shut down. If any program has gone rogue, i dont care, systemd must kill it, but it seems that systemd is doing nothing to do its job.

                    Btw, wtf is this phoronix forum bug, when every third button press results in comment field shrink/expand by one line ????
                    Well, you mostly see it with Word or whatever with unsaved changes. It will block shutdown permanently without user interaction

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by startas View Post
                      Yes, windows asks if you want to terminate, and it also continues shutdown process, which gets resolved really fast anyway, a saw max a few seconds of wait time when such things appear, which is very rarely, like 1 time in 1 year. And default values shouldnt be such bad, it just drives me nuts when in linux you have to go through various files and change tens or hundreds of retarded standard values for various things when you do clean linux install...

                      And this is systemd bug in a sense that i'm shuting down my computer, my work is done, and computer need to shut down. If any program has gone rogue, i dont care, systemd must kill it, but it seems that systemd is doing nothing to do its job.

                      Btw, wtf is this phoronix forum bug, when every third button press results in comment field shrink/expand by one line ????
                      It is doing its job though. It gives the program a specified time limit to complete it's task. It's known behavior that systemd will do this. If that program continues to be hung after that specified grace period, it takes the gun and shoots that process in the head.

                      Some applications have a legitimate need to not go down one nanosecond after being told to exit. I would say 90 seconds is a bit too log for my personal tastes, BUT at least it's not "infinity".
                      All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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