Fedora Fills Its Role For A Diversity Advisor

[killyou]

The whole point was that like slaves, women have been treated as property even in recent history. The foundation of our misunderstandings is that we don't agree with each other.

They still are in some countries. I never said otherwise. I was focusing on slavery bit and people tendency to complain and passing blame for their own misfortune by applying examples from my surrounding area. These people sound and behave the same but are not ancestors of slaves and that was my point.

[duby229]

They still are in some countries. I never said otherwise. I was focusing on slavery bit and people tendency to complain and passing blame for their own misfortune by applying examples from my surrounding area. These people sound and behave the same but are not ancestors of slaves and that was my point.

So we agree then that people are human beings regardless of their ancestry or gender? That no matter where in the world they are, people all have the same requirements? And that it is a governments responsibility to ensure that minimum social requirements are met? Including fair employment?

EDIT: I'm still not sure where we stand honestly.

EDIT: No I'm not talking about a welfare state.

[starshipeleven]

Not at all, I'm saying we should be aware of it so we can prevent it from happening again. I mentioned american history because that's the history I know best.

There is a ridicolous amount of attention-whoring money sinks that aren't doing anything useful for the cause they are supposed to help, and are seriously annoying anyone else.

This has to be taken into account, as you can't just let everything through if it has the right sticker on top, regardless of what it actually is.

This is what killyou is trying to say, imho.

[duby229]

There is a ridicolous amount of attention-whoring money sinks that aren't doing anything useful for the cause they are supposed to help, and are seriously annoying anyone else.

This has to be taken into account, as you can't just let everything through if it has the right sticker on top, regardless of what it actually is.

This is what killyou is trying to say, imho.

Of course, That's common sense. But I still believe it's stretching, those groups represent a minority of the whole and should be treated fairly as so.

[starshipeleven]

Of course, That's common sense. But I still believe it's stretching, those groups represent a minority of the whole and should be treated fairly as so.

Yes, the issue here is the "how we decide is best to make sure they are treated fairly". That is, how the ideal gets implemented in practice.

Just because the ideal is good does not mean that the implementation does not suck hard, or that it isn't even counterproductive.

In general what works best isn't singling out people by X, making a sub-group X with a mommy that can scold off the non-X people (assuming the non-X people actually listen to this mommy figure at all).

The only way to get minorities to stop being fucking minorities (the whole point) is to stop looking at the X that makes them a minority, and make sure none within the leadership does so.

This is usually a bit more involved, and requires restructuring the chain of command and possibly workforce, throwing out idiots (on both sides, either attention-whores or racist/mysoginist/whatever, both are equally unwanted).

Then the new policy can be enforced by the one and only chain of command without need for silly figures like a Diversity Advisor.

[johnc]

The whole point was that like slaves, women have been treated as property even in recent history.

Only in Muslim countries. Not in the West.

[duby229]

Only in Muslim countries. Not in the West.

Just nonsense.

[boombatower]

RIP Fedora. Seen too many other communities ruined by this shit.

[eggbert]

Yes, the issue here is the "how we decide is best to make sure they are treated fairly". That is, how the ideal gets implemented in practice.

I would argue there is no issue to solve. If dorky white guys happen to be the majority in software development, then SO WHAT? There are plenty of things that dorky white guys are not good at that other "groups" are. People are different. Deal with it.

That's not saying women and minorities should be excluded from participating. Welcome everyone, don't be a dick, and knock off the orwellian group think.

[Kite]

I can only attest to my own personal experience and I can certainly attest that women in technology don't get a fair shake. When I graduated and got my bachelors I earned Salutatorian with a 3.9 GPA. The Valedictorian was a women that earned a 4.0 GPA yet I got the highest earning job out of the whole class. I don't know for sure if she actually wanted that job or not, but regardless she didn't get it.

I can also only attest to my own personal experience, and my experience rather directly contradicts yours.

I graduated at the top of my class with a bachelor's in mathematics. My graduating class and the class prior (those I know), restricted to math majors, contained slightly more female students than male students. All of these were clamored over by businesses, and not one of them had difficulty finding their way into their choice of job or graduate school. In contrast, I ended up with a minimum wage job as a cashier after struggling for a year to find jobs utilizing my degree, a total of two of which would seriously consider me (excluding "minorities preferred" listings, which I learned quite quickly had no interest in hiring me despite my qualifications), neither of which worked out. Most of the other male graduates struggled to find jobs or first-pick grad schools similarly.

Worse, it drove a wedge between the female and male sides of our class --- *everyone* recognized the presence of this reverse discrimination, as it was completely obvious given the demographics and opportunities of our class, and it completely colored discussions of post-graduation plans for the worse. Nobody blamed these young female mathematicians for this, but the look of guilt on the faces of these young mathematicians when I had to respond "I've heard nothing yet" was both heartrending and haunting.

I would condemn no one to continually questioning whether they have truly merited their successes, or whether their success has been nothing more than symbolic political meddling. It is better to be hated and try and fail, than it is to be favored and try and succeed; for a failure can be overcome in spite of adversity, and time can prove the value of once-ignored work, but no amount of effort can take the fruit of your labors from the realm of merely symbolic adoration into the domain of merited recognition.