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What Systemd Developers Want To Change With Linux User-Space In 2016

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  • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    About freedom of choice, the whole point of systemd was never about init systems. It was always about preventing fragmentation, and that essentially means preventing choice.I don't even agree that fragmentation is even a problem.
    I don't know.
    You can only prevent something that has not happend yet, but maybe you meant reduce fragmentation.
    But even if that were one of the goals, you could have different solutions trying to achieve it and thus choice which approach to use.

    Of course it is nice for application developers when they only need to support one kind of a certain dependency, but it is common to support more if there is demand for that and more exist.

    From what I gather there is demand but nothing application developers could alternatively support.

    If we take the NetworkManager example: applications/desktop shells would have support for NetworkManager, some people would like to have an alternative but nobody would be developing ConnMan.
    That would not be NetworkManager limiting choice, the lack of options would limit choice, no?

    Cheers,
    _

    Comment


    • Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post

      I don't know.
      You can only prevent something that has not happend yet, but maybe you meant reduce fragmentation.
      But even if that were one of the goals, you could have different solutions trying to achieve it and thus choice which approach to use.

      Of course it is nice for application developers when they only need to support one kind of a certain dependency, but it is common to support more if there is demand for that and more exist.

      From what I gather there is demand but nothing application developers could alternatively support.

      If we take the NetworkManager example: applications/desktop shells would have support for NetworkManager, some people would like to have an alternative but nobody would be developing ConnMan.
      That would not be NetworkManager limiting choice, the lack of options would limit choice, no?

      Cheers,
      _
      I agree that would the considered result under traditional circumstances, but these aren't traditional. The tactics that I see getting used look a lot like antitrust and EEE. That's far from traditional circumstances in an OSS community.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        I agree that would the considered result under traditional circumstances, but these aren't traditional. The tactics that I see getting used look a lot like antitrust and EEE. That's far from traditional circumstances in an OSS community.
        I see.

        I haven't seen anything even remotely like that yet, only some badly executed attempts at starting alternatives (e.g. uselessd).

        Cheers,
        _

        Comment


        • Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post
          I haven't seen anything even remotely like that yet, only some badly executed attempts at starting alternatives (e.g. uselessd).
          forgive the pun, but the alternatives are useless as init is running fine in the last two decades, no need to develop another

          it is systemd that is an alternative of init as stated in its homepage: it "works as a replacement for sysvinit"

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          • Originally posted by trek View Post
            forgive the pun, but the alternatives are useless as init is running fine in the last two decades, no need to develop another

            it is systemd that is an alternative of init as stated in its homepage: it "works as a replacement for sysvinit"
            That is a good point.
            The init part of systemd has alternatives, because these existed before, e.g. sysvinit and upstart.

            The things that have no or not well maintained alternatives are the systemd services other than systemd-init, they make it so hard to replace the systemd "package" for those who don't want any of it.

            Cheers,
            _

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