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"PulseAudio Is Still Awesome"

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  • TeamBlackFox
    replied
    Originally posted by mdias View Post
    Every piece of hardware you have on your PC can only be controlled by one driver. This is for obvious reasons.
    When I say blocking I/O, I mean there's no provision for multiple inputs to be handled to ALSA, it has a tendency to listen to one process at a time, which leads to very unpredictable behavior.

    Originally posted by mdias View Post
    Yep. That's because that's where software dsp (including mixing) belongs. It serves 90%+ of the users' needs. If you have the need for low latency, go with Jack. ALSA may have flaws, yes, but I don't think exclusively locking your sound card is one of them.
    Where I am now, BSD and Commercial UNIX-land, multiple sound systems is neither acceptable nor the norm. You don't simply tell someone that when as it turns our, JACK and PA don't have anywhere near the same API, so that forces a user to find a new program if the one they want to use relies on PulseAudio. So no, try again.

    Originally posted by mdias View Post
    What Linux needs is to poop on users that:
    - support hardware vendors that don't supply documentation
    - can only argue on forums instead of actually opening bug reports and help debug problems
    - only see their own special needs as needed to be flawless
    Well good thing I'm not a GNU/Linux user anymore. I'm a BSD user, developer and supporter now. I also use commercial UNIX for hobbyist and work related stuff.

    Originally posted by mdias View Post
    I do believe people complain because they do have problems, but less complaining and more bug reporting would help everyone. Linux gives you tons for free, filling bug reports is the least you can do.
    Filing bug reports on Linux is a harrowing experience due to the inability, seemingly, of the developers to replicate a setup, or realizing that a power user with a lot of modifications or changes is sure to encounter bugs, and that such bugs should not be simply ignored because they're rare. I was told to fuck off, figuratively, in past reports. One of the reasons that drove me away as a user and developer.

    Originally posted by Remdul View Post

    This. I'm afraid any other attempt at adding another layer, or re-implementing one, will only make things worse. A Wayland-ish approach would be nice. Just cut right through the years of accumulated cruft, cast it aside and get right to the modern and functional. And existing software that can't adapt to it, is thusly not being maintained properly, and therefor can't be that important anyway (if it were, someone would step up).

    Until then, would also wish ALSA/jack (or whatever is to blame) would stop spamming stderr whenever I run my programs, grrr...
    I do this on BSD, especially FreeBSD, now. I'm a port maintainer, and eventually will work my way into the userland and kernel after my study of it is completed to a point I can contribute meaningful code. I feel the barrier to entry is somewhat higher on the BSDs, but this also keeps the morons like Kay and Poettering out, who I bet IRL couldn't engineer themselves out of a paper bag. One of my professors from my BS CIS program who teaches a class on System/390 Assembler among others told me that in the 25 years of reading shitty C, systemd and PulseAudio are in the top 20, along with GCC, Open64, screen, GStreamer, parts of XFree86, and Hurd. Then again, we're both heavy critics of some free software projects.

    If I were to design a sound stack, it would consist of a kernel-space device driver which could communicate with a master set of userspace processes through STREAMS, it would have a centralised error log, autodetect device configuration with a set of sysctls to control it, and would be designed from the start to be multithreaded and capable of handling multiple sound inputs and mixing them through an optional curses based, realtime mixer module. STREAMS, in my opinion, is the only way to design this to where it doesn't suck, and uses a well-established, zero copy protocol for IPC.

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  • Rallos Zek
    replied
    Originally posted by wagaf View Post

    With PulseAudio the sound system in Linux is good enough for end-users and most professionals. It is actually simple, coherent and flexible.

    For sure ALSA is shit, but if a new sound API was to be included in the kernel, PulseAudio should definitely stay there in userspace and use the new API simply because it's the most advanced and complete Free sound server available. The only value provided by ALSA is the (poor) kernel hardware abstraction layer but PA does everything else and does it right.

    I've found PulseAudio to be an excellent piece of software at all levels. It works much better than every other Linux audio library for almost every possible usecase. As a developer I also enjoyed the excellent sound API they provide. For instance with a single line I could enable audio cancelling and let PA determine if, with the current setup, audio cancelling is necessary, and potentially enable it live (while my app is playing) if the user plugs something etc. No lower-level system have access to the necessary information to do this : it should really be done in userspace unless the whole desktop is put in the kernel. Note that OS X and Windows now also include similar sound servers.
    LOL If ALSA is shit then Pulse Audio is shit, iss and bile all rolled in to one.

    Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post

    Alsa is a POS. Always has been. It's just the entire Sound ecoystem for Linux has been a POS hodge podge and people don't like a PulseAudio for fixing and simplifying it across desktop environments inside Linux. I haven't touched PulseAudio configs for nearly 18 months. It just works.
    Every time I try a Linux distro and have sound problems nine times out of ten its pulse audio and removing it makes my problems magically disappear. Pulse is pure shit, makes me miss the days of ESD and aRts.
    Last edited by Rallos Zek; 05 June 2015, 12:40 AM.

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  • geearf
    replied
    I am not sure about people saying PA works great for most users..
    I still have issues when running wine, to make it work okayish I have to hack some settings, but then the rest of my computer doesn't behave as well anymore... It's fairly annoying.

    I used to wait for the new passthrough sink (that would allow passthrough streams to take precedence and pause everything else), but I don't know if it ever got in... I just switched to PCM outputting instead and that works so...
    I'm not bashing PA here, I've been using it for years, but it's not good enough from where I stand.

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  • computerquip
    replied
    Originally posted by profoundWHALE View Post

    Have you seen these?
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTE1MDc
    http://klang.eudyptula.org/

    This seems to be the goal of Klang, but no real news to be heard of so far.
    He quit due to an overwhelming negative response from Linux developers. It's hard to tell if he was capable of such a task but some of the responses he got were some serious hatred. Some of the early comments were removed but have a taste: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/commen...ext_generation

    EDIT: Oh and he got a massive trolling on Phoronix forums and some other forums as well.
    Last edited by computerquip; 04 June 2015, 09:59 PM.

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  • grege
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but that sounds like somebody built the package without a whole bunch of configure flags.

    Except my Sid works flawlessly. People make wild statements about their own setup without mentioning the details.

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  • andre30correia
    replied
    i don't have any problem with pulseaudio since 2011

    Leave a comment:


  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by Licaon View Post
    On Debian Sid ( I won't switch to Fedora any time soon 10q ) it's the default yet I can't have sound in more than one app at once, believe me a tried to follow all the guides, to no avail.
    Also none of the pavucontrol / manager apps actually registered any sound or app being used, no mpd, no Opera ( flash / html5 ), no mplayer, no sdl2 game, nothing.
    This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but that sounds like somebody built the package without a whole bunch of configure flags.

    Leave a comment:


  • Luke
    replied
    "Most people doing audio are on Macs?" Not necessarity! I got my start on audio reporting and never had nor wanted a Mac. I always considered Macs to be hard to use clunkers, sometimes with no mic jacks, always with an unfamiliar interface. I had been used to first old versions of Windows on public computers, then to Linux machines with GNOME 2, in both cases using Audacity to edit sound. It was the natural free and open source replacement for Cooledit, with no paid version needed to output to mp3. Outputting from Cooledit to .wav back in 2004 made files too big for websites, outputting to .ogg made files nobody would open from a default Windows machine because their players didn't handle it by default. That was on a Pentium laptop with a 2GB HDD and Windows 95 on it. It was replaced by a far superior Athon 500MHZ/10GB HDD machines with what was probably Debian Woody on it later that year. Sure as hell XMMS was more reliable than Winamp for playback when running as an unattended sound server!

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  • profoundWHALE
    replied
    Originally posted by TeamBlackFox View Post
    If Linux wants any chance of being a good, reliable desktop, it needs to trash ALSA, PulseAudio, JACK, and maybe even OSS and write a kernel and userspace sound system that is both simple and coherent, yet flexible. I shake my head at the Linux kernel and distros of GNU/Linux for making so many beginner mistakes.
    Have you seen these?
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTE1MDc
    http://klang.eudyptula.org/

    This seems to be the goal of Klang, but no real news to be heard of so far.
    Last edited by profoundWHALE; 05 June 2015, 11:55 AM. Reason: Forgot the stupid ] on the quote...

    Leave a comment:


  • Marc Driftmeyer
    replied
    Originally posted by Licaon View Post
    On Debian Sid ( I won't switch to Fedora any time soon 10q ) it's the default yet I can't have sound in more than one app at once, believe me a tried to follow all the guides, to no avail.
    Also none of the pavucontrol / manager apps actually registered any sound or app being used, no mpd, no Opera ( flash / html5 ), no mplayer, no sdl2 game, nothing.
    I'm on Debian Sid and it works quite well. Don't have a single issue with anything you're mentioning. Been daily with Debian since 2001.

    Leave a comment:

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