Friction Building Around An Ubuntu Community Council Decision

[Rich Oliver]

What's the first word that comes into mind in association with the word "Dictator"? My guess is that "Hitler" outruns every other word by a large margin. Hitler is not merely a dictator. He is the dictator. Don't blame me, blame Charlie Chaplin. Check the Wikipedia "Dictator" page, four pictures on the right: Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler and Julius Caesar. As for Pol Pot, I just wanted someone who had been more recently popular. Remember there was such deep respect for the Khmer Rouge with in the international community that they retained their seat at the United Nations until 1992 although they lost de-facto power in 1979.

So correct me if I'm wrong but "Dictator" with all its connotations was a term introduced by Mark Shuttleworth's devotees not his detractors. No one forced them to use that word. They have deliberately chosen to invoke a simile of extreme authoritarianism. This is an intentional and well worn psychological tactic. It is the height of hypocrisy for them to then complain about their opponent's hyperbola, when it is them that have deliberately chosen to place a hyperbola at the centre of the debate.

Anyway my point wasn't meant to be a moralistic one. I can accept that for some people, Mark Shuttlworth's vision may align with their own. I would argue though that it doesn't align with any who prioritise the Linux desktop and the desktop is being sacrificed for the phone and tablet. I also just get annoyed about the way people use the term benevolent dictator. (in my perception) people seem to use is as if it was new concept when the claim to benevolence has been inherent in the concept of dictator from its beginning. And that no one would ever have become dictator or remained so if a significant group of people hadn't experienced their rule as benevolent.

[caligula]

So basically the issue is that Canonical is abusing their power, lying that the free software they get for free ia somehow protected by their trademarks and whatnot. What a load of crap. The whole distro is a pathetic pile of NIH. Their own desktop, display server, version control system, init system, love of closed source addons, and so on. It's disgusting the most poular Linux distro is so full of non-collaborative NIH software and embraces closed source and also the political hate towards community distros (kubuntu). Don't like.

[k1l_]

so its the KDE / Kubuntu guys again going for the "most drama" approach because they cant accept the world is not spinning in the way the demand it.

After the intended drama about XMir with the ragequit of one kwin developer to pursue a no-mir-ever policy on kubuntu, this is the next step?

i saw the irc cc-meeting and was shocked by the behaviour of riddel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/19...ng.html#t17:40 . i can understand he gets frustrated because things move slow there, but that is not caused by the cc (see irclog and mailings for details).


we really need to get back to the point where its not ok to be an asshole just because its against ubuntu/canonical. we dont want that to be ok against anyone.

[eidolon]

Shuttleworth is a self appointed dictator, who claims to be benevolent.

Yes, Shuttleworth is often referred to as "Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator for Life". My feelings on the matter probably reflect, in part at least, Scott Kitterman's own, except much more dispassionately:

SABDFL created and funded both Canonical and Ubuntu. His sand box, his rules.

Ubuntu and its derivatives don't constitute my sandbox of choice (I do use Ubuntu sometimes, but most of my usage is with, and focus is on, other distributions). I have found Kubuntu and Linux Mint to be helpful in my personal life in migrating some friends and family to Linux, and both of these distributions have experienced some degree of friction with their Ubuntu progenitor at times.

Hitler was thrown in with Stalin and Pol Pot, as examples of leaders whose followers declared them benevolent, so no this doesn't apply for Godwin's Law

I read it as there being an implied comparison. Regardless, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and their "fanboys" are superfluous, and are unneeded extremes. His post loses nothing by their exclusion, and gains nothing by their inclusion (if anything, I would argue that the post runs the risk of being disregarded because of their inclusion). I heard that Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were really ahead of their time in software development though, but just couldn't work well with others, and they had bloodthirsty aspirations which got in the way of what could have been brilliant careers as programmers.

[Nth_man]

Hi!

I just wanted to say that KDE Plasma and Kubuntu work well and in a stable way in two computers that I manage, virtual machines, computers of some of my friends and two computers that manages an acquaintance of mine. Those are the places where I directly see Plasma and Kubuntu working.

There's a "Virtual machine of Kubuntu 14.04 i386 Desktop, stable version" on
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B2...dfaGdJTUU/edit
so that anyone can conduct experiments on it.

I usually also employed a copy of it as a virtual machine and it works stably.

Using a virtual machine, we avoid the problems of drivers that need development, driver developments that need funding, companies that hide details of their hardware and so it hinders driver developments, etc.

About it, there is a README.txt on the same web address.

If anyone has any doubt, on this thread he can make questions. Greetings!

[rikkinho]

no one will miss this guy, kubuntu is one of the worst kde distro out there

[Luke_Wolf]

There is a comparison being drawn.

Ah, I missed that, however he has a point. Shuttleworth is a self appointed dictator, who claims to be benevolent, and whose fanboys will defend him regardless of his actions, as has been shown plenty of times over the history of Ubuntu, and most recently with Mir. His point is that dictators aren't benevolent and Hitler was thrown in with Stalin and Pol Pot, as examples of leaders whose followers declared them benevolent, so no this doesn't apply for Godwin's Law, unless you want to say that references to Hitler or Nazis should never ever come up in any context.

[Luke_Wolf]

It looks like this isn't going to end any time soon.
http://jriddell.org/2015/05/26/reaff...buntu-council/

To be honest, that's a good thing. Shuttleworth needs to learn he can't just do these kinds of political shenanigans and get away with it, and the Ubuntu CC needs to retract its libelous statements

[eidolon]

Strawman much? who is comparing Shuttleworth to nazis?

...most supposedly benevolent dictatorships are anything but benevolent. Don't all dictators claim to be benevolent? What dictator hasn't claimed to be benevolent? Did not Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot claim to be benevolent and didn't large numbers of their fanboys mouth their propagandist drivel?

There is a comparison being drawn.

[Luke_Wolf]

I wouldn't stake Linux's future on Ubuntu, and I'm probably more inclined to be sympathetic to Jonathan Riddell's frustrations, but Mark Shuttleworth (or Linus Torvalds, or Steve Ballmer for that matter, who is no longer CEO of Microsoft or on its Board of Directors) shouldn't be subject to Godwin's law.

Strawman much? who is comparing Shuttleworth to nazis?