Friction Building Around An Ubuntu Community Council Decision

[c117152]

If you lie down with dogs, you will get up with fleas.

[k1l_]

Why did you start in the middle of the discussion rather than the beginning? Here it is from the beginning http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/19...ng.html#t17:30

I looked at it and was shocked by the behavior of the others. They asked for an example of harm caused by the policy, and when he gave one they just dismissed them out-of-hand. Riddel asked four times to drop it since it wasn't going anywhere before they finally stopped. They never even tried to answer Laney's question. They claim that it is incorrect for him to say that they have done nothing, but they couldn't say what they have done even when explicitly asked. Nor could they give an explanation for why they couldn't have an opinion on the matter. I think he was pretty patient considering the dismissiveness, stonewalling, and runaround he got.

No, the issue is that Jon is demanding either an immidiate change of the policy or an statement from the CC that this policy is not valid _while_ the legal departments of canonical and Software Freedom Law Center are still working on that issue. Jon and the Kubuntu Council are very aware of that. But he (they) still put pressure on the CC and claims "that the CC doesn't understand the basics of free software " etc.pp.
That is just a dirty trick to get what they think is the right solution. Like a Bully forcing others to do what he wants.

Like i said before: You set the Niveau of the "linux community" that low if its against ubuntu/canonical. I dont think you will like it if there is no ubuntu/canonical anymore and the wild mob will look after new targets. So better stop that sort of behaviour now for all directions.

Laney's question was answered:

Laney: or work within the archives as Kubuntudoes

[TheBlackCat]

Yes, Canonical has a trademark on the name of Ubuntu, like Red Hat has trademark on Red Hat. Even you even have trademark on the name of your tiny open source program. Even if you do not know about it. Shame on you if you do not know such trivial things about your profession.

This isn't about trademarks, this is about Canonical claiming copyright on the compiled binaries of open-source programs.

And systemd vs upstart, that is the most absurd. Upstart was production ready when Systemd started. It is not Canonical who is showing the NIH syndrome. At least not in this case.

No one in this thread has claimed otherwise.

As well as Mir. They want it to be mobile ready. That is their first priority. I do not know if they will be successful, or not, but that is not the question. What the heck is so difficult in understanding that Mir and Wayland has entirely different priorities?

Wayland is already mobile ready. And Mir's mobile-readiness comes from work done for Wayland. The supposed different priorities of Mir all turned out to be incorrect, Wayland was prepared to handle those use-cases before Mir was created, and is handling them right now.

[TheBlackCat]

i saw the irc cc-meeting and was shocked by the behaviour of riddel: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/19...ng.html#t17:40 . i can understand he gets frustrated because things move slow there, but that is not caused by the cc (see irclog and mailings for details).

Why did you start in the middle of the discussion rather than the beginning? Here it is from the beginning http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/19...ng.html#t17:30

I looked at it and was shocked by the behavior of the others. They asked for an example of harm caused by the policy, and when he gave one they just dismissed them out-of-hand. Riddel asked four times to drop it since it wasn't going anywhere before they finally stopped. They never even tried to answer Laney's question. They claim that it is incorrect for him to say that they have done nothing, but they couldn't say what they have done even when explicitly asked. Nor could they give an explanation for why they couldn't have an opinion on the matter. I think he was pretty patient considering the dismissiveness, stonewalling, and runaround he got.

[hontvari]

I am very tired of all this Ubuntu and Canonical hate. The points are always the same, and half of them is bullshit, half of them is factually incorrect.

Yes, Canonical has a trademark on the name of Ubuntu, like Red Hat has trademark on Red Hat. Even you even have trademark on the name of your tiny open source program. Even if you do not know about it. Shame on you if you do not know such trivial things about your profession.

And systemd vs upstart, that is the most absurd. Upstart was production ready when Systemd started. It is not Canonical who is showing the NIH syndrome. At least not in this case.

As well as Mir. They want it to be mobile ready. That is their first priority. I do not know if they will be successful, or not, but that is not the question. What the heck is so difficult in understanding that Mir and Wayland has entirely different priorities?

[TheBlackCat]

To also lose Scott K will hurt what is a great KDE distro. The Ubuntu CC and Mark S needs to reflect here on what I see as a really bad decision

This may be a feature, not a bug. Ubuntu has been progressively sidelining Kubuntu for a while now. Anyone who wasn't expecting further moves in that direction hasn't been paying attention. Whether this decision, at some level, is part of that I can't say (especially since it was all secret). But I would not be at all surprised if it was.

[osinclair]

This is not about Mir or Wayland or systemd or whatever. Jonathan has worked hard for the Kubuntu distribution. That he has asked questions about how *buntu use funds coming from outside can not be wrong in itself. If he has used the wrong channels, so be it. In none of the quoted IRC or mails do I see any abusive language that should make anyone shed tears. Of course I am not wading through years of email and IRC but the quotes are not, to me, in any way abusive or offensive. Mr. Riddell is not any appointed leader but he is sure seen as "brand leader" of Kubuntu and KDE and this just does not make much sense. To also lose Scott K will hurt what is a great KDE distro. The Ubuntu CC and Mark S needs to reflect here on what I see as a really bad decision

[caligula]

Ask Canonical. It was them starting the Mir project. It turned out they use majority of Wayland implementation for several years yet the project is far from ready.

I'm pretty sure they need to abandon Mir once the competing technology wins. And why wouldn't it. Canonical doesn't have the resources to push their NIH solution harder than the whole rest of the community. Even other vendors feel happier with their own or standard techniques. Canonical has so far contributed very little to Linux users in terms of technology. Everything they make is unusable outside their bubble and they are eventually forced to switch to standard technologies like git or systemd.

[finalzone]

Why not merge Wayland and Mir? Probably everybody will get happy again.

Ask Canonical. It was them starting the Mir project. It turned out they use majority of Wayland implementation for several years yet the project is far from ready.

[mike4]

Why not merge Wayland and Mir? Probably everybody will get happy again.