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Ubuntu's Desktop-Next Switching From .DEBs To Snappy

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  • #11
    I don't like the direction Canonical is taking Ubuntu.

    Instead of Mir, I would rather just see Wayland.
    Instead of Snappy, I would rather see .deb with Btrfs snapshots and rollback.

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    • #12
      Maybe another upstart/systemd situation?

      Debian adopted systemd already. I don't think deb or dpkg could represent the whole debian project. It's way better if every distro supports docker-like package format. Let's wait and see which package would be the final winner.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Detructor View Post
        in what way is .deb broken? The only package management I know that is definetly 'broken' is .rpm. .deb is the only logical choice, there is nothing else. You shall have none beside the mighty DEB!
        Deb packaging is cool if you are the kind of person that also enjoys stabbing your eyes out with a pencil.

        https://wiki.debian.org/IntroDebianPackaging

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        • #14
          How about the technical side?
          How about any benchmarks that snappy is faster? And faster at what? Numbers please.
          Also, I'd like to hear a few real examples that suck or are impossible with .deb.
          And maybe other things snappy brings.

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          • #15
            The only package management that i find sane so far is arch's pkgbuild.
            I created thousand of deb and rpm packages. hundreds of ebuilds. Been a maintainer for several thousand of packages. Automated the hell out of it.

            but arch is by far the cleanest, easiest, fastest all around. No-nonsense approach. Easier to automated, faster to run builds, easier to understand, fix, etc.


            When I do that manually it still takes me at least 5mins to make a deb or rpm package (without cheating by using fpm mind you). slightly less with ebuilds, but these can grow very complex as well.
            it takes me 30s for arch. every. single. time.

            (and obviously, systems are setup with btrfs snaps for rollback)

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            • #16
              This could spell future problems for modded installs if .debs stop updating

              The concern I have is this: what will happen a few versions further down for existing installs that simply roll from release to release without ever reinstalling except from locally-saved snapshots? I don't care about Ubuntu creating new spins that work differently, that is no problem. Rather, I am concerned about support at the level of lower level packages-and for PPA's for existing installs that use the Debian system. This could be a real problem for me if all the Ubuntu flavors and Ubuntu-server are ever forced to switch package management systems. Not just me, that could break every existing "rolling" installation.

              If there is one thing I do not want it is for support for updating libraries and using PPA's to go away. It would take a long time of gradual updates to convert in place to Debian, possibly as difficult as throwing out binary package management and just getting everything from upstream for local builds and make-install.

              My systems have diverged so far from stock Ubuntu that conversion to a package-incompatable version of Ubuntu would require not only a reinstall, but also conversion of every package I have built myself from source and days of tracking down all changes. It would be as difficult as converting to a totally different distro and repacking all my locallly build binaries to their format. If I have to do all that, I was thinking I might be better off with Gentoo than Ubuntu since I build so much from source these days anyway. At last count I've got 65 locally built packages on my system, including ffmpeg and my entire MATE-Gtk3 DE. I've had more than that when I was using locally built Kdenlive.

              Does anyone know of a way to make Gentoo's source based updating system work with an existing install of a different distro to convert it to a source-based distro with automatic update management?

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              • #17
                Originally posted by balouba View Post
                The only package management that i find sane so far is arch's pkgbuild.
                True, but what about installing a program offline (like is possible on windows)? any program always require to install a bunch of (online) dependencies. I hope that this ubuntu initiative will fix that.

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                • #18
                  good news

                  maybe this stop with the breaks of apt, it already work like a charm in phones why not in desktop?

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Luke View Post
                    Does anyone know of a way to make Gentoo's source based updating system work with an existing install of a different distro to convert it to a source-based distro with automatic update management?
                    Gentoo certainly sounds like the right choice in your situation. But no, you can't just convert it (aside from /home, but even then), you have to do a clean install. Which is much easier than trying to convert things, anyway. But as for automated updates, well, automating Gentoo updates is pretty much impossible, because every once in a while, during Perl/Python/OpenRC upgrades you'll run into blockers that Portage can't solve automatically.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Detructor View Post
                      in what way is .deb broken? The only package management I know that is definetly 'broken' is .rpm
                      Source? Somebody made the same claim the other day and their link was "rpmdb uses too much I/O," which isn't "broken" just "bad implementation."
                      All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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