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"Why Linux Is Still Not Ready For The Desktop"

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  • #81
    I run Photoshop CS6 perfectly in Wine but true Gimp could need some push alike Krita recently.

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    • #82
      A pity he did not try Mint

      It's a pity this poor chap did not try Mint, where a good number of his initial issues would have gone away. Unfortunately his blog does not seem to have any feedback facilities to tell him this. Oh well, perhaps when he next comes around someone will point him to the distro that will suit him best, beforehand.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by computerquip View Post
        2) LibreOffice isn't good. It should be compatible with docx. It's a damn shame since it's one of the few formats that Microsoft openly documents: http://www.ecma-international.org/pu...s/Ecma-376.htm
        That is such nonsense. The documentation for docx is ridiculous and not even Microsoft implements it. If you followed the "standard" it wouldn't be MSOffice compatible.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by brownsr View Post
          It's a pity this poor chap did not try Mint, where a good number of his initial issues would have gone away. Unfortunately his blog does not seem to have any feedback facilities to tell him this. Oh well, perhaps when he next comes around someone will point him to the distro that will suit him best, beforehand.
          Do you perchance have Disqus entirely blocked?

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          • #85
            Originally posted by carewolf View Post
            That is such nonsense. The documentation for docx is ridiculous and not even Microsoft implements it. If you followed the "standard" it wouldn't be MSOffice compatible.
            Indeed. There are at least 4 versions of MS Office Open XML aka DOCX out there.
            MS has published a pile of crap, that it so much, barely anybody would read throught this and implement.
            The best thing is: They do not keep to their own "standard".

            So of course, regardless what you do, you will never be compatible with MSO, and then you still have the C-font-Problem.
            Stop TCPA, stupid software patents and corrupt politicians!

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            • #86
              Originally posted by nslay View Post
              I think you're exaggerating. A lot of the most common operations become second nature once you learn the basics. But you do need the man pages for less common operations.


              The flaws in desktop environments do vanish with the terminal because Linux and its arsenal of small tools are so very good at the command line. So much so that you don't even need the desktop or GUI to do most things on Linux.

              I disagree. I don't think the environment is harsh at all. In fact, I find it liberating when I can't (or don't know how to) easily do something on Windows (like, say, using find(1) to delete all files in deep a file tree with specific extensions, or replacing text in thousands of files all at once).

              But Linux is certainly not the system to use if you're expecting Windows. It's really a different world no matter how hard desktop environments try to hide it.

              By the way, I have trouble believing you've used Linux for over a decade if you struggle with the basics of the command line.



              I often find the terminal more convenient and useful than the GUI on Unix-like systems because it always works consistently and reliably when I want to get something done. GUI tools for system administration are always secondary. And that's because the primary UI for Unix-like systems is the terminal.

              I will just add a few more opinions/observations of mine:
              • Windows is so widely used that its what everyone has to come to expect from computer user interfaces.
              • The knowledge to use Windows is taken for granted. I think basic knowledge to use Unix-like systems is comparable.
              • Where Unix-like systems offer man pages for more complicated operations, Windows sometimes involves undocumented workarounds involving unusual system executables and the registry to accomplish similar.
              You seem to think everyone wants to be a system administrator...
              EDIT: And the dumb part is you can do things like a complicated batch delete in Windows, on the command line. You probably just don't realize that because you probably dont' use Windows.

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              • #87
                Originally posted by Adarion View Post
                Yeah. Sure. Everybody loves Gnome 3. I wanted to stop reading there. But maybe by now you can configure what happens when you close the lid of a laptop? Can you? Or are users still forced into a pre-set default?
                It' changable through a systemd config file, you think thats a dealbreaker? then windows is not desktop ready, too. You need to search some very cryptic dos commands that windows not wakes up by any network package by default. And that with a garbage konsole not a good one.

                https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...nt#ACPI_events


                1. The lack of ease to obtain and install proprietary drivers.
                Not the fault of Linux.
                Best would be to be able live totally without them. Then you would not even remotely have to mess around with all that blob stuff. Stuff that ist not trustworthy, sometimes of questionable quality, huge, requires specific versions of kernel or X or other libraries.
                This Problem will be adressed and at least more or less will be gone with steamos, even I am courious how exactly, steamos beta is there how did they adress that problem? I guess some kind of autoinstall with a EULA label, with a accept key?
                Last edited by blackiwid; 03-13-2015, 07:45 AM.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by computerquip View Post
                  That said, a lot of core applications already have a GUI to replace the CLI interface, such as NetworkManager, UIs for power management, sound, monitor resolution, etc. provided by most DEs. The terminal is not, and will never be, the most convenient solution for the user, even if it is the most convenient for the developer.
                  yes but 99% of time a good cli tool is more convient than a medium proprietary programm.

                  Btw guis are good if you do something exactly one time, but if you want to do some operations on 100 files mostly cli is better and its more flexible. and you can never reach the same level of features and flexibility with guis than with cli.

                  it is btw also not the most convinient way to do things for developers. its just very reliable and very interoperatible. Its a quick way to do something one time. you dont have to learn a complete gui like gimp or blender. both good programs if you do something bigger, but if you onlf want to transform a few as example picture files its just faster to google a cli line than learn the the complete gui structure of some propramms.

                  I mean MS Office and even more Photoshop have huge learning curves this tools are very complex, other tools like tk-brief are really easy to use.

                  interoperability aside, developers need some keyboard interfaces that can be also guis. thats what developers need often for that there are no alternatives to terminal but terminal is not best solution but most feature rich.

                  As example I can do more or less everything in emacs localy, but remote its more different. but thats more sys admin tasks. but you can start terminals in emacs so thats also no big problem

                  its not cli vs gui its keyboard vs mouse-centric environments.

                  I also think people are forced to live in the browser in the future, I will live in emacs instead ( chromeos now made chrome the displayserver that says it all )
                  Last edited by blackiwid; 03-13-2015, 08:12 AM.

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by computerquip View Post
                    You seem to think everyone wants to be a system administrator...
                    EDIT: And the dumb part is you can do things like a complicated batch delete in Windows, on the command line. You probably just don't realize that because you probably dont' use Windows.
                    That's not what I think at all. I'm really trying to point out that Unix-like systems are a completely different OS designed to be used with a completely different (UI). They are a poor substitute for users expecting a Windows-like experience. Users who are really accustomed to Unix-like systems don't notice the deficiencies in desktop environments because their desktop experience amounts to: terminal + browser. They use the terminal to do all the basic things like mounting file systems, managing files, or installing software.

                    I use both. You can definitely do some things with the Windows command line. But this really pales in comparison with a Cygwin terminal (as ick as Cygwin is).

                    You can even surprisingly do some complicated things with the Windows UI. For example, you can do a sequenced multiple file rename. I forget how to do it, but I know it's possible. But this is definitely a rare example where Windows can do something complicated in the UI. For everything else, there's Cygwin for that.

                    Anyway, I really do think people really do take their basic knowledge of Windows for granted. And in doing so, they often unfairly think of some completely different concept OS as comparatively complicated.

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                    • #90
                      You can not force anybody to use cli. I even use "powercfg -h off" on Windows because it takes ages to find the GUI equivalent. MS even added PowerShell, but thats object oriented, more C# like than POSIX shell. But skilled ppl like to write scripts on every OS, has nothing to do with Linux in general.

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