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A Proposal To Go 64-bit Only With Fedora 23

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  • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    I've had to deal with old software quite a bit. Another customer of mine is running a really old POS for her bookstore. That software literally will not work on any NT based OS. I can't explain it, but it only works on win9x. Some years ago that machine blew it's power supply and motherboard. My job was to get her POS working again. Getting win9x to work on modern hardware is a pain in the ass. I had to disable all cores but 1. It wouldn't boot with more than 2 gigs of RAM, and I had to lower the CPU clock below 1GHz.

    It's just the way it is. Sometimes you have to accommodate old software.

    EDIT: I wonder if wine can run it? It's not worth checking, it's already done. But an interesting thought.
    That is interesting and reminds my adventures some years ago with a old 486dx2 66Mhz
    I had to transfer and make to run a old program that controls sells in a store....program written in FoxPro 2.6, running in Windows 3.1 .

    In the end i mannaged to do so because i had access to source code and after a small modification because printing issues (and i had to use a 32bit Window$ printer spooler that will catch anything in a folder and send to printer) and a patch to make language compatible with modern fast CPUs, program runs in...WINE
    (Yeah, the printer spooler also is running in WINE).

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    • Originally posted by duby229 View Post
      A guy I know has a machine he uses for printing on vinyl billboards. The software is like 20 years old. He runs it with a copy of windows 2000 pro from inside a virtual machine. That machine doesn't need to be online. Any other software doesn't need to be on that machine.

      That would be my advice for your software as well.
      IIRC, doesn't work....just like i'm 100% sure doesn't work in WINE.

      Needs a Window$ driver installed and the installer only works with a real machine or else fails...and even with a real machine is darn dificult sometimes to install, i.e. no way to work with USB to Parallel converters or addon PCI/PCIe Parallel cards, only works with real Parallel ports buildin in the MoBo and directly supported by BIOS.

      This is one of the reasons i just smile when i sometimes see people including reviewers, clearly not in-the-know, that acts surprised when see MoBos still made with Parallel/Serial or even PS/2 ports....not to mention D-Sub VGA connector.

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      • And there STILL are specialty motherboards with ISA slots, in which you could probably run an ISA parallel port card which is recognised as the "real thing".
        In fact, the latest and greatest PC as well as the 16-year-old has the "Low P?n Count" bus which emulates an ISA bus, ISA is translated in the chipset to higher MHz and fewer pins but the CPU still thinks it's old ISA. PS/2, COM and LPT are attached to this but also critical infrastructure such as the real time clock and maybe a bit of other stuff.


        Originally posted by dungeon View Post
        Those poeple should use Windows XP and slighty older hardware (or up to some version which works, that can be Windows 98 too), for mission critical tasks. And i don't think Windows 10 will care too much about those, how time goes it just care less if not at all.
        Windows 10 will care somewhat, as it comes with a 32bit version - though as with Windows 8, NX bit is required, which virtually means a 64bit CPU is required except for some VIA CPUs and Prescott-where-64bit-is-fused-off-but-NX-isn't.

        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        EDIT: Oh yeah I remember now. Willamette ran on an 845 chipset i think, Prescott on a 945. Intel used to brag so hard about their IGP. It's was totally pervasive in office environments of that day. It's made billions of dollars for them. I'm not sure it could run a modern desktop environment though. (3d composited anyway)
        I think it can, but well you don't need a 3D composited environment. nor even a 2D, software rendered one.
        Some people complain of "tearing", which only happens in the one second it takes to move a window, is only significant on monitors limited to 60Hz and just plain fucking don't matter to people who don't know about it.
        Even on powerful hardware, it's likely to introduce desktop glitches and slowness in 3D applications anyway, unless you run Windows Vista/7/8/10 not linux.

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        • Originally posted by grok View Post
          Windows 10 will care somewhat, as it comes with a 32bit version - though as with Windows 8, NX bit is required, which virtually means a 64bit CPU is required except for some VIA CPUs and Prescott-where-64bit-is-fused-off-but-NX-isn't.
          As always best supported are new ones with Windows 10 sticker on it

          There was a rumors about Windows 10 will drop 32bit too

          http://www.product-reviews.net/2014/...tedly-dropped/

          Just like this rumor for Fedora - it might not happen.

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          • Originally posted by Mat2 View Post
            Many people simply can't afford buying a new system.
            Linux is used not only in the developed world.

            EDIT: And we may gain new users on low-end hardware that switch from WinXP.

            EDIT2: I'm sitting on a 6 year old laptop (Intel Core 2 Duo) that is working really nice and I have no plans to switch in the nearest future.
            Which is a 64 bit CPU...

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            • Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
              That is primarily why the poor remain poor and rich remain rich. The poor will buy cheap crap that will be more expensive in the long run than the high-quality stuff the rich buy. Additionally the rich will also get something that actually works
              The ECS KBN-I/2100 has come up a bunch of times for only $30, I have 2 of them in use right now, I begged for 4x sticks of DDR3 ram for them, so don't tell me the poor can't buy a current gen computer for next to nothing as an upgrade kit. If you've got a PC built in the last decade it's got an SATA HDD and you can make live USB stick if you can't find a SATA DVD burner or a USB enclosure for an IDE/PATA DVD burner.

              The ECS KBN-I/2100 has 2x 1Ghz 64 bit CPU cores, working OSS drivers, an OpenCL and h.264 decode and encode capable GPU, all in a 4 watt draw fanless APU.

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              • Originally posted by gens View Post
                wow so much bullshit

                a p4 does NOT use much power
                if you want to reduce power usage don't use bloated software

                also maths, for which gj people
                power usage difference of, to be generous, 20W is barely noticeable on a monthly (even yearly) bill
                and you do more harm to the environment by buying a new computer and dumping the old one

                for defending an illogical idea, gj people
                especially for the "just buy a new computer" statements, gj
                You know how hot they get? Power consumption and TDP are not the same, P4s suck down power, not just on the CPU, but in the northbridge, GPU/iGPU, Southbridge etc. Not to mention the old PSU not only was likely below 70% efficient and due to it's age has certainly become less efficient over the years, which further increases power consuption as it is being lost as waste heat, which is only a good thing in winter.

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                • Originally posted by gens View Post
                  yes, older ones like willamette with its 180 nm lithography
                  "newer" ones using 130 nm down to 64 nm don't get that hot, especially the celerons

                  also granted that was before todays power saving things
                  on the other hand they are single core, that might lower the relative (lithography wise) power usage a bit compared to todays cpus
                  The giant tower coolers and heatpipe coolers came about specifically becasue of the P4's obscene amount of waste heat. Remember, P4's thermal throttle, even on Linux because if they didn't they'd fry themslevs if they stayed running at full speed.

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                  • And something for the 32bit Fighters. You can use some CPU Features like aes-ni only with 64bit

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                    • I had a P4 Sony Vaio that, apart from weighing a ton and being built like a tank, blew like the fires of hell. The battery life was so miserable, I rarely relied on it. I hated that thing. There's a reason why Intel based Pentium M on P3 and not P4.

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