Systemd Gains IP Forwarding, IP Masquerading & Basic Firewall Controls

[duby229]

You willfully ignored the parts about coming up with your own solution and becoming involved to change the course of a distribution. It is quite obvious that this is because it doesn't fit in your agenda and renders your arguments invalid.
So, to make it clear: No, Linux should not die, what should die is the sense of entitlement of a certain part of its userbase that think that they should have a say how developers run their projects.
You don't like systemd? Fine, stop using distros that make use of it, go to Slackware (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Gentoo (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Void (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Devuan (which seems to be aimed at having a systemd option in the future), CRUX (no, they won't go systemd) or whatever you like. You will learn a valuable lesson when doing that, by the way, those projects also don't like it if you start to tell them how they should do their work, maybe that helps you in the future.

And you willingly ignored the part where I'm not a coder.

And again since you do tend to ignore things.... I already use gentoo exclusively without systemd.... But I still have a valid opinion. (I still need a linux system I can deploy to my customers.)

EDIT: and not everyone can do that. When the thousands of people who hate systemd read your post and then they try gentoo, game over. linux is dead.

[MoonMoon]

I'm just not good at coding. It is what it is. I accept my limitations.

But I still have a valid opinion. I'm not a mechanic, I'm a network engineer and maintainer. My opinions are valid. I have a few hundred linux systems deployed commercially. Plus a few thousand windows machines I have to deal with.

But you know what? My qualifications don't matter one tiny little bit. My qualifications don't affect the dumbass decisions that other people make.

And neither do your opinions or qualifications entitle you to tell others how they should do their work. You can't code? Fine with me, I am not a good coder either. You can still try to attract people (including coders) to your cause ot just set up a Kickstarter/Indiegogo/whatever campaign with the goal to create alternatives or maintain existing ones. As you said, to contribute you don't need to code, but someone has to do it, code doesn't magically appear just because you complain on a forum.

In short: If you want something done either do it yourself or pay someone to do it. You have no right at all to demand things.

[MoonMoon]

And you willingly ignored the part where I'm not a coder.

And again since you do tend to ignore things.... I already use gentoo exclusively without systemd.... But I still have a valid opinion.

So you use Gentoo with OpenRC, fine. What are you actually complaining about? That other distributions use systemd? Why would you care about that? Or is it that somehow the idea of a hostile takeover (was?) formed in your head that somehow makes your ability to use Gentoo void? Does it come down to that, you fear a conspiracy against you?

[duby229]

And neither do your opinions or qualifications entitle you to tell others how they should do their work. You can't code? Fine with me, I am not a good coder either. You can still try to attract people (including coders) to your cause ot just set up a Kickstarter/Indiegogo/whatever campaign with the goal to create alternatives or maintain existing ones. As you said, to contribute you don't need to code, but someone has to do it, code doesn't magically appear just because you complain on a forum.

In short: If you want something done either do it yourself or pay someone to do it. You have no right at all to demand things.

I wasn't demanding anything. systemd sucks. That's not a demand, that's a statement. It's not a complaint. It just is what it is. When others come on and say how oh so great systemd is, I have to say BULLSHIT!!

[duby229]

So you use Gentoo with OpenRC, fine. What are you actually complaining about? That other distributions use systemd? Why would you care about that? Or is it that somehow the idea of a hostile takeover (was?) formed in your head that somehow makes your ability to use Gentoo void? Does it come down to that, you fear a conspiracy against you?

You clearly don't read either. As I already said, I am a network maintainer. I need to deploy linux systems. I've been using redhat, but that's gonna come to an end soon.

[david_lynch]

Next update will be : Linux kernel now integrated into systemd

Actually, the scuttlebutt I've heard is the plans for systemd include a microkernel replacement for vmlinuz, which will make the linux kernel "optional"

[liam]

While I like systemd as a concept, implementation kinda sucks.

Especially networking part. What's wrong with doing full copy af already existing DHCP utils into systemd, tweaked to be executed as a loadable module instead separate executable ?

DHCP and other parts are operating in "limp mode" - good enough for 30 second demonstration, but totally braindamaged for real use.

same with networkd. You don't have any influence over its work other than link and network files. So this means that if network link gets botched, you don't have any means to restart it through networkd.

Or to change network configuration etc.

... you don't seem to be aware of how systemd, the project, works, or the particulars of its networking code (connman).
This is largely intended for containers. If you don't want it for your desktop, and it's activated, just mask it.

[DeepDayze]

Systemd OS, the new and complete operating system.

bahahaha best post on this subject

[matt_g]

dbus has always been a bad idea, and dbus in the kernel is an even worse idea. Not to mention dbus communicating between the kernel and userspace is the worst idea yet.

For some one who doesn't know how to program you sure are opinionated everytime you spout nonsense like this it just reinforces my opinion that you are ignorantantly sprouting off about things you have no idea about.

DBus is a message passing interface. If you knew anything about programming (which you addmitted you don't) then you'd know it enables more capable IPC than you otherwise have using the"old-school" posix ipc methods like sockets, shared memory or god help you signals. Modern desktops are expected to be capable of running many applications in parallel and those applications expect to be able to communicate with one another you need a common message passing interface to enable this, which is what DBus provides. Sure you can write programs without DBus you can even use all those old school ipc mechanisms I mentioned earlier to emulate the behaiour of DBus (poorly) but you create a lot of extra work and by the time you'd do all this hard work you'd have recreated huge chunks of DBus from scratch anyway. For better or worse DBus is the message passing interface for Linux. DBus is not some estotic thing that linux adopted to spite people like you. Almost all modern modern operating system have a similar message passing interface to DBus. Developers writing non-trivial applications expect something with DBus like capabilities.

If you knew anything about the history of k-KDBus you'd know it came from automotive world, you know those people who are using Linux in things like Sat-navs, car stereos etc. You can read about the history behind it here: https://lwn.net/Articles/551969/ but of course if you'd prefer to stay ignorant than go ahead. They tried other approaches (AF_BUS) before settling on KDBus.

I'm a Unix curmudgeon (some of my coworkers call me a Dinosaur) I admit it freely- you can pry Emacs+GDB from my cold dead hands but to argue dbus is a bad idea is just plain ignorant. This stupid attitude people have "If its good enough for system V unix its good enough for me" really needs to go away, times have changed it's not the 90's anymore.

[timtas]

So you use Gentoo with OpenRC, fine. What are you actually complaining about? That other distributions use systemd? Why would you care about that? Or is it that somehow the idea of a hostile takeover (was?) formed in your head that somehow makes your ability to use Gentoo void? Does it come down to that, you fear a conspiracy against you?

One problem might be the fear that more and more software starts to depend on systemd, thus reducing the choice of software non-systemd systems can use. The fear stems from the fact that udev was promised to never depend on systemd and then suddenly did, that the leading systemd developer explicetely asked the Gnome developers to hard depend on systemd, which it now does, afaik. And no, I'm not gonna pull out that mailing list posts for you, I know I have read them and if you want proof, go find it yourself.