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Systemd Gains IP Forwarding, IP Masquerading & Basic Firewall Controls

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  • #81
    @Michael - time to redefine the term "senior member" on these forums. Senior member used to mean a person had given a lot of valuable feedback on a number of varied technical topics. Now, a lot of these "senior members" are simply people who have posted bad systemd one-line jokes a couple hundred times.

    Also, voluntary moderation is probably in order. None of this idiocy is worth reading at all. This entire thread could be reduced to about 3 useful posts.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
      Of course you're right, distributors do have a certain amount of guilt. They do need to carry some blame. They could have just told systemd devs to fuck off, but they didn't, and that certainly is their fault.
      Seriously? Distribution developers are to blame for using functionality in systemd that is a) not provided by any other project, or b) only by projects that are unmaintained for years? That is what you want to blame them for, not basing their project on unmaintained (and therefore obsolete) or simply not existing software just because you, a person that spends its time arguing on the Phoronix forum instead of contributing anything, say so?
      You just made my day, this is so ridiculous.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by MoonMoon View Post
        Seriously? Distribution developers are to blame for using functionality in systemd that is a) not provided by any other project, or b) only by projects that are unmaintained for years? That is what you want to blame them for, not basing their project on unmaintained (and therefore obsolete) or simply not existing software just because you, a person that spends its time arguing on the Phoronix forum instead of contributing anything, say so?
        You just made my day, this is so ridiculous.
        And if you had bothered to quote the whole post you'd see.

        All of that is systemd's fault. For allowing themselves to fall into it the distributions fault. As I already said.

        I do contribute, you just don't see it. I bug test and report for the software I use. I contribute to documentation. And I help answer questions on a number of forums. My contributions may not be code, but I contribute more than most people.

        You clearly think the only valid contributions one can make is code. But that makes you wrong.... again...

        You just don't know, but obviously think you do.
        Last edited by duby229; 14 January 2015, 05:08 PM.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          So if the majority of people that are forced to use something hate it, then it's their fault? Um, no, that's not how it works.
          Indeed, that is exactly how it works: If you don't like it, don't use it. If your distro of choice starts using it become involved and try to change that. Or start an alternative project that makes the things you want them to be. You are not entitled in any way to tell those developers how their projects should work.
          [quote]
          And you clearly don't know the story about what happened with udev. It was only a handful of devs that had the majority of power that made that decision. It was only made because the systemd devs didn't want to do the real work. I've never been a big fan of udev. I don't like it. It's not good enough, it never has been. But, there is no alternative, (besides a static /dev) and now there isn't even that.[/code]eudev, mdev, porting devd from the BSDs, coming up with your own solution, ..., the possibilities are endless, but complaining will not make them appear or compatible with your distro, someone (read: you!) has to actually do the work.

          dbus has always been a bad idea, and dbus in the kernel is an even worse idea. Not to mention dbus communicating between the kernel and userspace is the worst idea yet.

          And Consolekit? That buggy piece of junk should never have been deployed anywhere.

          And of course the BSDs can do whatever they want to do.

          Is there any other point you want to try to make that doesn't make any sense?
          Sorry, but if there is a person that doesn't make any sense it is you. Try at least to back up your claims, start with why DBUS is a bad idea, kdbus is a bad idea and show us your alternative to logind/Consolekit (at least a design draft) that shows us why those are bad and how your solution would look like. I bet you can't, because it is actually you that is simply reposting stuff that you have read on random blogs without having the slightest understanding of it.

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          • #85
            Originally posted by duby229 View Post
            I can easily choose not to use slackware. It's not easy to choose not to use systemd. It's really a simplistic ideal. That's why systemd has no choice but to listen to their userbase.

            EDIT: when they don't listen to their userbase, which is always, they virtually slap everyone of them in the face...
            What you are saying here is: I have to use systemd because no one (including duby229) comes up with an alternative that distros want to use, so we should make systemd listen to us, so that we can continue freeloading on other peoples work without having to contribute ourselves.
            Also, you seem to have a problem in understanding who systemd's userbase is, it is not the random user (though users can definitely benefit from their work, I do and many others do, too), it is distribution developers and they overwhelmingly disagree with you.

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            • #86
              Originally posted by MoonMoon View Post
              Indeed, that is exactly how it works: If you don't like it, don't use it. If your distro of choice starts using it become involved and try to change that. Or start an alternative project that makes the things you want them to be. You are not entitled in any way to tell those developers how their projects should work.

              And you clearly don't know the story about what happened with udev. It was only a handful of devs that had the majority of power that made that decision. It was only made because the systemd devs didn't want to do the real work. I've never been a big fan of udev. I don't like it. It's not good enough, it never has been. But, there is no alternative, (besides a static /dev) and now there isn't even that.[/code]eudev, mdev, porting devd from the BSDs, coming up with your own solution, ..., the possibilities are endless, but complaining will not make them appear or compatible with your distro, someone (read: you!) has to actually do the work.

              Sorry, but if there is a person that doesn't make any sense it is you. Try at least to back up your claims, start with why DBUS is a bad idea, kdbus is a bad idea and show us your alternative to logind/Consolekit (at least a design draft) that shows us why those are bad and how your solution would look like. I bet you can't, because it is actually you that is simply reposting stuff that you have read on random blogs without having the slightest understanding of it.
              So, let me get this right.... By your own logic, if you don't like something just stop using it right?

              Arch, Debian, RH, Fedora, Ubuntu, Suse.... And alot more....

              So what your saying is Linux should die right?

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                And if you had bothered to quote the whole post you'd see.

                All of that is systemd's fault. For allowing themselves to fall into it the distributions fault. As I already said.

                I do contribute, you just don't see it. I bug test and report for the software I use. I contribute to documentation. And I help answer questions on a number of forums. My contributions may not be code, but I contribute more than most people.

                You clearly think the only valid contributions one can make is code. But that makes you wrong.... again...

                You just don't know, but obviously think you do.
                No, code is not the only contribution that counts when it comes to the Linux (or any other) ecosystem as a whole, but it is the only contribution that counts when it comes to how a certain project is designed and coded. I don't give a fuck what a car mechaninc has to say about my computer hardware and I don't give a fuck what a software developer has to say about my car. Why should those people do what you propose when it comes to software design and coding when you yourself clearly state that you are not a coder?

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by MoonMoon View Post
                  No, code is not the only contribution that counts when it comes to the Linux (or any other) ecosystem as a whole, but it is the only contribution that counts when it comes to how a certain project is designed and coded. I don't give a fuck what a car mechaninc has to say about my computer hardware and I don't give a fuck what a software developer has to say about my car. Why should those people do what you propose when it comes to software design and coding when you yourself clearly state that you are not a coder?
                  I'm just not good at coding. It is what it is. I accept my limitations.

                  But I still have a valid opinion. I'm not a mechanic, I'm a network engineer and maintainer. My opinions are valid. I have a few hundred linux systems deployed commercially. Plus a few thousand windows machines I have to deal with.

                  But you know what? My qualifications don't matter one tiny little bit. My qualifications don't affect the dumbass decisions that other people make.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                    So, let me get this right.... By your own logic, if you don't like something just stop using it right?

                    Arch, Debian, RH, Fedora, Ubuntu, Suse.... And alot more....

                    So what your saying is Linux should die right?
                    You willfully ignored the parts about coming up with your own solution and becoming involved to change the course of a distribution. It is quite obvious that this is because it doesn't fit in your agenda and renders your arguments invalid.
                    So, to make it clear: No, Linux should not die, what should die is the sense of entitlement of a certain part of its userbase that think that they should have a say how developers run their projects.
                    You don't like systemd? Fine, stop using distros that make use of it, go to Slackware (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Gentoo (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Void (which by the way runs fine with systemd), Devuan (which seems to be aimed at having a systemd option in the future), CRUX (no, they won't go systemd) or whatever you like. You will learn a valuable lesson when doing that, by the way, those projects also don't like it if you start to tell them how they should do their work, maybe that helps you in the future.
                    Last edited by MoonMoon; 14 January 2015, 05:25 PM.

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                    • #90
                      [QUOTE=MoonMoon;464259]Indeed, that is exactly how it works: If you don't like it, don't use it. If your distro of choice starts using it become involved and try to change that. Or start an alternative project that makes the things you want them to be. You are not entitled in any way to tell those developers how their projects should work.
                      [quote]
                      So with your logic if someone comes and takes your car and tells you that you must use a pair of ice skates to get to work all year round, then that's your fault? You must not be very intelligent, since it isn't my fault that systemd is being force fed down everyone's throats and that it is eating the Operating System. It isn't my fault that when people go to their distro's to help keep their beloved init system alive or to give an alternative that they get shunned because it's not systemd, because that is systemd's fault. Systemd came in and took over without giving anyone a chance to stop it. You can love your systemd but you will see that there was really two sides in this and not one (systemd) and that your beloved Linux is no longer Linux, that in fact it is SystemdOS. Just so you know Linux is about the user/community not the developer.

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