Systemd Gains IP Forwarding, IP Masquerading & Basic Firewall Controls

[duby229]

And this is exactly why I freaking hate it. It doesn't even implement some required functionality. It isn't even a capable firewall.

Look, the bottom line is, there are some very nice simple to use iptables firewall gui's that already exist. Most of which are more complete and functional than what is getting implemened in systemd.

I hate it. I absolutely fucking hate it.

[halo9en]

[duby229]

Oh, OK.
I never claimed systemd to be remotely close to perfect.
I do claim to developing and fielding complex multi-service appliances is now far easier, than it used to, back in the (not-so) good old SysV days.



I'm not sure what's your point.
If you enjoy drawing criticism, and it somehow makes you feel better, please don't let me stop you.
Though, given the fact that Linux (and the rest of GNU) was founded by people with an itch to scratch (and based on these principles), don't be shocked if your criticism is largely ignored.

... On the other hand, if you want to *do* something about that systemd scratch that's itching you (as opposed to generating white noise), join the Devuan team.

- Gilboa

I'm sorry gilboa, but this just isn't right. I have massive respect for you, but you're wrong on this respect.

I can help with tracking down bugs or with documentation. But, I'm not a coder. I've tried to learn, but I don't have the skills for it. (more or less it's the organization skills) Sometimes you need to kick people in the balls to convince them to act.

If you like systemd and it works for you, then great. But, don't assume that your needs are the same as everyone elses.

[GreatEmerald]

Cool. I'm thinking of switching one of my virtual server instances to networkd, as its interface is very basic and static. Having also NAT control may be a bit interesting, although in general the real router does the firewall stuff for it.

It's just a front-end to iptables, so what's the big deal? It's not like they reimplemented the entire stack or integrated iptables into systemd.

But is it really iptables? Because if so, it seems very short-sighted, now that nftables are replacing iptables (I never learned iptables and I have no plans to learn it now that the much more understandable nftables are available; kind of like the whole sysvinit vs systemd situation).

gnu is multiplatform, while systemd is linux

True. GNU/systemd has a certain ring to it.

[justmy2cents]

If you like systemd and it works for you, then great. But, don't assume that your needs are the same as everyone elses.

and yet at the same time you assume your needs are same as everyone elses?

based on adoption of systemd, not. as it is it seems it works for most people. otherwise, devuan would now have thousands of contributors and debian would be forgotten

"make your case and prove your point... if you fail? put up and shut up or go and build your own". that was always OSS motto. why would volunteers spend time to cater something they don't believe in? and if some people do, but they are not willing to risk their time... what does this say? sooner or later one must realize people don't agree with his views and he failed, at that point as always in good old OSS "YOU STILL HAVE THE CHOICE!", it just requires more sacrifice

[duby229]

and yet at the same time you assume your needs are same as everyone elses?

based on adoption of systemd, not. as it is it seems it works for most people. otherwise, devuan would now have thousands of contributors and debian would be forgotten

"make your case and prove your point... if you fail? put up and shut up or go and build your own". that was always OSS motto. why would volunteers spend time to cater something they don't believe in? and if some people do, but they are not willing to risk their time... what does this say? sooner or later one must realize people don't agree with his views and he failed, at that point as always in good old OSS "YOU STILL HAVE THE CHOICE!", it just requires more sacrifice

Adoption of systemd was totally forced. It's because of shit like this.

You're wrong, the oss motto has never been "It just requires more sacrifice" If that is what you believe, then you will totally fit in with the systemd crowd. You can sacrifice everything you want, but I refuse.

In the meantime, I'll continue using gentoo. I'll continue helping bug test and reporting. I'll continue helping with documentation. And I'll continue helping answer questions on the forum. I'm just not a good coder. I don't have the abilities that others have.

[speculatrix]

Michael wrote: granted, in 2015 systemd development skyrocketed

did he mean, in 2014 systemd development...???

[MoonMoon]

Adoption of systemd was totally forced.

Really? How again did they force other developers to adopt systemd?

[r_a_trip]

Two things:Second, I humbly reject all posts that basically say "if you don't like it, go build your own distribution/init/whatever". Because as a user, especially power user, I have every right to critisize it and let my like OR dislike be known, even if I am not working on that project or any of its alternatives. Everybody who tells me that, should first build their own car/smartphone or shoot their own movie before being allowed to critisize another one.

Well, not to rain on your parade, but what good does ceaselessly criticizing systemd for existing* do? You might not like it, but who are you? What power do you hold within the various distro's? If the answer is none whatsoever, then the only recourse you've got is voting with your feet (most distro's have decided to standardise on systemd). Realistically, as an end user, I have exactly the same option, but I have no need for it as I happen to like systemd.


*Yes, for existing. The general design is what it is and if something will backfire, it will be something that needs to be dealt with when the time comes. It's idiotic to scrap the whole project a priori on the ground that systemd could/might/maybe have problems in the future. If worst comes to worst, it can always be deprecated and a new project with better insights started (e.g. X.org --> Wayland).

[duby229]

Really? How again did they force other developers to adopt systemd?

What other options are there? Every other option there once was got sucked into systemd. I'm still flaming over udev.

I'll bet you any amount of money that sooner or later networkd will become the ONLY way to run a firewall on systemd systems. It's just how that camp does things.