Everyone Has Different Views On The "Open-Source Community"

[gens]

it is not nice to sort people by groups then judge them by what group they are in
because it leads to prejudice in getting into contact with those people

Aaron Seigo, in hes view on the subject, noted that not everybody that likes the same thing or act similarly do it for the same reason
just as i, in my 25 years on this planet, have not found two people that think the same

for example, i do not suit into Rahul's "systemd is horrible - group" at all
i have different reasons for not liking it

we are all human
ty

[gens]

sorry for the late reply

Correction:
Nobody is forcing the main distributions to support gnome except for the populous of those distributions.
You are free to remove the dependency of systemd from gnome or to make it optional.
You are also free to develop your own distribution with modified packages of another mainstream distribution.

There's a lot more complaining about the use of systemd than about systemd itself. It's not very productive.

ofc, i am free to remove the dependency of gnome to systemd
but not upstream
just as i am free to make... idk openbox dependent on... libcaca
well... actually i am not as i can't name it gnome3 or openbox then

funny example of how invasive systemd is because of gnome
an example gtk using program, brasero, depends on glib, ofc
glib depends on systemd-something
so brasero, that has nothing to do with anything systemd, depends on it

another example
i have a 512MB ram laptop
to save myself the trouble of configuring i decided to put debian on it, the xfce version
i had a choice of stable or newest, i went with newest (this was a little before systemd was the default)
it worked great,
but i wanted to shave off a couple MB so, among other things, i replaced networkmanager and nm-applet with connman and its gtk gui
turned out that connmans gtk gui for whatever reason does not accept 5 character WEP passwords (did not find how to do it manually)
so i went back to synaptic, clicked remove connman and the gui and install NM and nm-applet then clicked "process"
it spinned around some and displayed what it's going to do and that i will take over 500MB
i was... surprised
over 500MB to install nm and nm-applet when the whole installation was ~680MB ?
turns out nm-applet pulled in the whole gnome3 and gnome3 pulled in more gtk stuff and systemd with it

it is also no secret that gnome folks and systemd folks like each other and buy each other flowers and such

so ye
i am free to fork it...
but i have 5 other projects and a job
am i free to quit my job and get paid by some foundation or company ?

PS one of my other projects is a audio filter
if someone needs a really fast low pass, high pass or something like that signal filter, let me know
i'l be happy to share

[curaga]

Who owns KDE?

I'm not familar with KDE's plans wrt systemd, got links?

[Nobu]

Just type "reset". This is NOT a init system feature but a terminal feature. ... Unless your init system also provides your terminal of course ..

Thanks, that's handy. It's not in the bash, sh, or tty man pages though, afaics. Edit: Ah, has it's own manpage...would be nice if it was referenced somewhere else, though. I knew about 'clear', but only because I tried it on a whim a while back.

[RahulSundaram]

From an end users' perspective it seems that there should be o difference if the distro switches to systemd except for improved boot times. Am I right?

Boot times aren't the focus of systemd but merely a nice side benefit of the design. For the vast majority of users, something like systemd is fairly invisible to them since it is pretty low level compared to say your desktop environment. As for benefits from systemd from a personal perspective, I don't dread having to write init scripts because the systemd equivalent files are just plain text with descriptions and the integration of logs etc is awfully convenient You don't have to deal with processes getting struck mid way through etc.

[RahulSundaram]

I'm not familar with KDE's plans wrt systemd, got links?

Sure

https://plus.google.com/+MartinGr%C3%A4%C3%9Flin/posts/GMtZrNCeaLD

[Nobu]

Sure

https://plus.google.com/+MartinGr%C3...ts/GMtZrNCeaLD

I knew I had read something about that somewhere, but couldn't find it to save my life. Here's a link to Martin's blog post from after the sprint, which contains some other relevant links. Though nothing about systemd, unfortunately. :/

[curaga]

Of course I am not interested in making anything in a way that it ties us to systemd. And even if I did there are people like +Aaron Seigo who rightly yell in such cases. Especially in the area of mandatory dependencies Aaron and I have very often opposite standpoints and I think that is very healthy for discussions and decisions (and I am quite sure that we both take a more extreme point in such discussions than we actually want). Still the point remains: I want to have socket activation and that's just not provided by any other solution. This feature will depend on systemd in practice but in theory any system allowing socket activation would work. And it will still be possible to just start KWin without systemd support - I will need that for development. One will be able to use that, but important features will be missing then. I'm sure other projects welcome patches to make that possible.

KDE's stance seems entirely sane. Systemd only on Wayland, and even there not a hard requirement.

[erendorn]

KDE's stance seems entirely sane. Systemd only on Wayland, and even there not a hard requirement.

You missed "but important features will be missing then.". It will not be a hard requirement of KDE, only a hard requirement of important features of KDE.

[curaga]

There's no list of those features yet, but if the link above is to go by, I expect it's limited to the crash recovery.