Everyone Has Different Views On The "Open-Source Community"

[interested]

last time i checked everybody has a right to an opinion
do you agree with me on that one ?

Of course.

and systemd IS forced, there should be no doubt in that

Nobody is forcing anything upon anybody. Nobody is forcing you to use Fedora or any other systemd distro, just like Slackware isn't forcing systemd users to use a SysVinit variant init system. If you don't care about systend, just use Slackware, it is Linux too you now.

Upstream projects like Gnome aren't forcing anybody to use systemd either, they just support some systemd features like "logind" that are sorely needed since ConsoleKit aren't maintained any more. But Gnome and KDE etc. are still trying to support CK, despite that it doesn't get bug fixes, but they receive no help at all from the systemd opponents in doing so, in fact all they get are vitriolic hate attacks. And yes, the latest Gnome 3.14 still support CK and runs on BSD, despite the repeated online lies that it has "hard dependencies" on systemd.

It is simply a made up sob story that systemd is forced upon anybody. Just use Slackware and help out with maintaining a positive, constructive non-systemd development environment, that actually produces code, and help out upstream DE projects as best as they can. That would promote the non-systemd cause a million times better than hate attacks on systemd and its developers.

[computerquip]

crisb stated one
other argument is the deprecation of some programs and the continuation of the same under systemd

ofc that are just presumptions
considering the big distros have to support gnome and new versions of that programs, the distros derived from them (that usually are hobby distros) have to follow
out of the 5 popular "source" distros (6 if counting arch) 3 of the most forked/popular ones switched to systemd (fedora, debian and suse)
as for arch, there was drama around that as the switch came suddenly
not to mention the whole debian debacle

again, those are all presumptions
but considering everything i wouldn't say many had a choice in all that
anybody is free to correct me on this (except for the systemd priest)

Correction:
Nobody is forcing the main distributions to support gnome except for the populous of those distributions.
You are free to remove the dependency of systemd from gnome or to make it optional.
You are also free to develop your own distribution with modified packages of another mainstream distribution.

There's a lot more complaining about the use of systemd than about systemd itself. It's not very productive.

[bridgman]

The basic argument that has been given is that by making systemd a dependency of Gnome, distributions that wanted to ship Gnome had to adopt systemd (or develop a plugin compatible alternative that does the same stuff in the same way with respect to Gnome, which is hard). Since Gnome is popular and important, distributions chose the easier route of adopting systemd. Whether or not you agree with that perspective is up to you.

Understood, but Lennart didn't make that decision, did he ? If not, why the hate for him rather than, say, the Gnome folks ?

[interested]

crisb stated one
other argument is the deprecation of some programs and the continuation of the same under systemd

The only program deprecated was ConsoleKit. In fact it was handed over to a Ubuntu maintainer, Martin Pitt, who was the one chosen to continue the project: Here is the hand over mail:

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2012-January/msg00008.html

Apparently Martin Pitt chose to make the "systemd-shim" instead that Ubuntu and Debian uses (among several). Solves roughly the same problem, at least on short term.

The systemd replacement for CK, was entirely new code called "logind".

The only other program taken in by systemd was udev, because the main developer thought it would prosper better under the systemd umbrella.
It has been forked too in a project called eudev, so nobody needs to even invent an alternative to udev, they can just use eudev and maintain that.

There is simply nothing in systemd that prevent anybody to make a non-systemd distro and maintain that.

[xeekei]

Understood, but Lennart didn't make that decision, did he ? If not, why the hate for him rather than, say, the Gnome folks ?

Lennart Poettering's last software contribution, PulseAudio, got off to a very bad start, and hasn't really shed that reputation yet. Also, Lennart actually is a bit arrogant in my opinion, though nothing that warrants this giant hate mob. Then again, arrogance in high profile open source devs isn't exactly uncommon.

[finalzone]

Lennart Poettering's last software contribution, PulseAudio, got off to a very bad start, and hasn't really shed that reputation yet. Also, Lennart actually is a bit arrogant in my opinion, though nothing that warrants this giant hate mob. Then again, arrogance in high profile open source devs isn't exactly uncommon.

It you talk about PulseAudio early implementation on Ubuntu, blame Canonical for rushing it without proper testing.

[xeekei]

It you talk about PulseAudio early implementation on Ubuntu, blame Canonical for rushing it without proper testing.

I tried to avoid pointing fingers, but sure.

[stiiixy]

I personally like Michael's inclusion of a 'slaughterhouse' picture in his article. Nice touch, mate!

And what are you'se drinking in that last pic? Found any local micro-brew's in your new state yet?

[Apopas]

Sad that Liam chose to leave it all due to rants by some trash on the internet. I hope he changes his mind and goes back to contributing to GoL.

For third time? No. You can not be an admin if you change your mind all the time.

[erendorn]

The basic argument that has been given is that by making systemd a dependency of Gnome, distributions that wanted to ship Gnome had to adopt systemd (or develop a plugin compatible alternative that does the same stuff in the same way with respect to Gnome, which is hard). Since Gnome is popular and important, distributions chose the easier route of adopting systemd. Whether or not you agree with that perspective is up to you.

Okay, who's forcing Gnome then? (and, well KDE, as to my understanding they intend to depend on systemd too at some point)