Lennart Poettering On The Open-Source Community: A Sick Place To Be In

[Naib]

I was being sarcastic. But well, maybe I did not convey it good enought.



You might want to rewatch the talk again. Because datenwolf was asked if he was okay with Lennart interupting him or if the Angels (at c3, the helping hands are called Angels) should ask Lennart to shut up or escort him out. To which datenwolf replied "No, no, let him talk. I want to give him some more rope".
So yeah, datenwolf was fine with Lennart talking back to him, hell, even encouraged him by directly addressing him while pressenting the slides.

Again, datenwolfs talk was utter crap. And that is his fault. He could have said during the talk "please, questions at the end" but no, he wanted questions during the talk. He could have held the talk in German because his English is crap but no, he had to do it in English. He could have talked with the people responsible for the software he was goign to talk about but no,
he is not responsible, the others need to read his talk and then correct him on his own faults. Are you kidding me? How is this guy even at a university? This was stuff taught to me in my very first semester. If you give a talk, it is your bloddy responsibility to get your facts straight or people will rip your talk appart and rightfully so.

I did watch it, twice. My point is how Lennard interupted is beyond rude. I agree the presentation has holes but that is no excuse for the level of interruption that he endured, we would immediately interrupt when Datenwolf went to defend himself... bad form & this kind of behaviour makes him an asshat & while before I didn't have an opinion on him BUT on sysd , that's changed... he can't take criticism, he can't communicate in a civil manner. A dick needs to be found to fuck him to stop him shitting on linux anymore (re. Team America)

[LubosD]

Not exactly.
If your current distribution is using systemd by default, you can remove it and install an other init software (systemV or whatever..). Or you can switch distribution.
The packagers that do the hard work choose systemd as default as their choice, you as an user can install other software.

Unfortunately, not true. The prime example of that is udev.

I happen to be using Gentoo, so I'm alright, but beyond Gentoo, who else still supports and will support non-systemd installations?

[LubosD]

Having vitreous rants about systemd won't stop its adoption - it's very good at what it does - its a single way to bring up, configure and maintain a system

It's a god send to system admins and I can't wait for it to be an industry standard

And at the same time, it is the biggest problem. You forego the possibility to use different components to do the job.

I mean, seriously, NTP support as part of the init system?!

[iniside]

All I can say, Everyone praise Linus for lack of political correctness.

[Naib]

And at the same time, it is the biggest problem. You forego the possibility to use different components to do the job.

I mean, seriously, NTP support as part of the init system?!

Or a httpd? OR even planned cloud integration? http://0pointer.de/public/gnomeasia2014.pdf There are things that just should not be in an init system (or init+daemon manager as that is what systemd is) but its gone beyond too far now.

[asdfblah]

Ok. Let's talk about context.

"Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!)"

How does context help here? How is this not literal?

http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs...o.20130215.txt

That is not the Linux community wanting to hire a hitman OR even hiring one...


^^ read above.

WAIT, so this is what Poettering and followers are crying over? Are you guys from an association of asperger sufferers or something? How come you can read the whole thing, including context, but can't distinguish reality from a joke? This is the very same definition of retardedness... Either that, or you are collectively being a bunch of hypocrite crybabies, just to take advantage of the situation. Either way, you should feel ashamed of yourselves.

Also, you know that udev depends on systemd, right? It's not like you can just go and replace it...

Oh, and regarding systemd: it doesn't add any new features (every "feature" it adds was already there, and/or came from a completely unrelated project), so learning about it IS a waste of time. Of course, RedHat employees, those who got a certification and those who work with RHEL have to, somehow, justify their wages...

Why don't you leave if you hate Linux (the software, Linus himself and the community) so much, is beyond me...

And finally: if you think everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, you should look at the mirror for a while, and think about it.

[niner]

I did watch it, twice. My point is how Lennard interupted is beyond rude.

Have you watched the same presentation I watched? Datenwolf repeatedly _asked_ Lennart to comment. But whenever he didn't like Lennart's comment, he interrupted Lennart.

The whole presentation was a big rant of the kind "I don't actually know how this stuff works and why it is the way it is, but I nevertheless don't like it". He repeatedly ranted about software Lennart was involved in, made false claims, asks Lennart and obviously did not even listen to Lennart's answers. Datenwolf was just trying to push his rants through even while Lennart was still explaining.

Quite frankly, even though it might not have been polite by Lennart, the whole presentation got so much more value by Lennart explaining why things were done in certain ways. Without that it would have been just a unqualified rant like you can read in forums like this every day by people who don't know a thing about what they're ranting.

[Laser]

asdfblah, nobody will have a discussion with you. You just disqualify completely with your first paragraph. Let me just say this: Red Hat has done an awful lot for Linux. In fact, without Red Hat, there'd most likely be no Linux as we know it. Without you, it'd just be one less person complaining about stuff they put no work or money into.

[stevenc]

Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!).

Did I miss something, or is this a VERY SLIGHT OVER-DRAMATISATION of:

http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20130215.txt

Feb 14 2013 18:21:23 <WizardNumberNext> udev - that seams to be work of some alien! I do not understand this lanuage at all. I think, if that shit would happen, i am going to put all my interfaces on bridge and build brtables and arptables to get back both sensul name and normal NIC behavour
Feb 14 2013 18:21:51 <kerio> how expensive is a hitman?
Feb 14 2013 18:22:03 <kerio> we can pool some bitcoins
Feb 14 2013 18:26:42 <Pali> cut his hands, so he will not be able to write any new line of code
Feb 14 2013 18:29:29 <kerio> Pali: there's speech-to-text now
Feb 14 2013 18:29:40 <kerio> i believe that any solution has to be more... radical
Feb 14 2013 18:30:52 <DocScrutinizer05> i'm afraid redhat would pull a clone out of their fridge if anything ever happened to poettering
Feb 14 2013 18:30:56 <kerio> hahaha

[MoonMoon]

And at the same time, it is the biggest problem. You forego the possibility to use different components to do the job.

I mean, seriously, NTP support as part of the init system?!

Or a httpd? OR even planned cloud integration? http://0pointer.de/public/gnomeasia2014.pdf There are things that just should not be in an init system (or init+daemon manager as that is what systemd is) but its gone beyond too far now.

So there are still people out there that don't get the difference between systemd the init system and systemd the project?
Wow, the information that systemd (the project, not the init system) is aiming at being a basic OS build system, mostly targetting its functionality at running containers, is available for ages but it still has not reached you?
Also, if you don't like NTP or HTTP being a part of systemd (again, the project, not the init system) than either compile systemd with the appropriate switches to leave that out, or, if you are running a binary distribution, just don't use it. Nobody is forcing you to run those services.