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Lennart Poettering On The Open-Source Community: A Sick Place To Be In

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  • #91
    Originally posted by sbolokanov View Post
    They ARE forcing them. I can certainly see why they whine about it.
    For most distros that are switching you have the choice to move to the newest version of that distro or not - no one is forcing you to upgrade

    For the rolling distros - I'm not sure if the Arch folk have a choice but they've been the least vocal and probably the most supportive of systemd - Gentoo you still have a choice about which init system you want to use

    As I said previously there are distros out there that cater to people not liking systemd and OSes that will never support it

    Having vitreous rants about systemd won't stop its adoption - it's very good at what it does - its a single way to bring up, configure and maintain a system

    It's a god send to system admins and I can't wait for it to be an industry standard

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    • #92
      Originally posted by FireBurn View Post
      It's a god send to system admins and I can't wait for it to be an industry standard
      I feel the same way

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      • #93
        Originally posted by mo0n_sniper View Post
        I feel the same way
        Ditto, same thing for PulseAudio. IMO both systemd and PA are great pieces of software, that only got hate by being adopted too quick (I'm looking at you fail-buntu, man how I hate that distro... ok nobody's perfect, I need something to hate too) and not being properly integrated into a system. When I switched to OpenSUSE I found both of them to be awesome, no problems anywhere, everything works just the way it should.

        So kudos to Lennart for his work.

        BTW: I also agree that Linus' attitude is nothing to be proud of. I think he actually should get someone to write/talk for him (to translate from his bully-talk to normal English). As much as he is a great hacker, he is a complete failure at people communication.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by curaga View Post
          "The Open-Source Community: A Sick Place To Be In"

          Of course, none of the hate is deserved, or caused by Sir Poettering being an asshole or a bad leader. /sarcasm

          No, I don't condone death threats. Yet, you can pick any amount of visible assholes that do not get the same amount of hate: Theo, Linus, Drepper. There's a reason for that, and it's not "The Open-Source Community".
          There are other public figures who get some similar amounts of hate, eg. Mark Shuttleworth, Richard Stallman. And Theo de Raadt wasn't exactly loved for his "Linux is garbage" stance.

          It is no surprise that highly opinionated individuals who are (semi) public figures are going to draw flak when they make statements that other people strongly disagree with, particularly when people feel that those individuals somehow have the power to push through their "vision" of the world. This is true regardless of whether we are talking about open source, closed source, or politics in general. Some Republicans hate Obama. Some democrats hated Bush. Some Gentoo developers hate Systemd. Some KDE developers hate Ubuntu. It would be great if we lived in a perfect world, where people with different opinions could disagree in a polite, rational and unemotional way - but we don't live in that world, we live in this one, where people are instinctively tribal, and where people take personal offense when their opinion or their software is criticised, or where they perceive a threat to their beliefs or software from some other group that is perhaps more popular or powerful.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by FireBurn View Post
            By your logic we should all be hating Wayland as it's making huge disruptive changes requiring all toolkits and a lot of apps to be rewritten to support it
            People did hate Wayland, particularly after Ubuntu announced that they were switching to it. People were worried that Ubuntu was popular and powerful enough to be able to force Wayland onto the rest of the Linux community. And then Ubuntu announced plans to switch to Mir instead, so people started hating Mir. There has been quite a bit of hate for Mark Shuttleworth for a long time, but this is not something exclusive to open source - there is far more hatred for, say, Obama or Bush, than anyone in the open source world ever got.
            chrisb
            Senior Member
            Last edited by chrisb; 07 October 2014, 06:51 AM.

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            • #96
              If we were to judge based solely on the contents of this thread: Lennart is right, we are a community of assholes. Being an asshole isn't all bad of course but making death threats over somebody's free software project? That's crap and all of you know it. I could give a shit how you personally feel about Lennart's work (Gnome, systemd and pulseaudio) because none of that excuses acting like a bunch of dumb bloodthirsty animals.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                "The Open-Source Community: A Sick Place To Be In"

                Of course, none of the hate is deserved, or caused by Sir Poettering being an asshole or a bad leader. /sarcasm

                No, I don't condone death threats. Yet, you can pick any amount of visible assholes that do not get the same amount of hate: Theo, Linus, Drepper. There's a reason for that, and it's not "The Open-Source Community".


                Also, lol @ the FUD about 4chan. Must be convenient to have a scapegoat always ready at hand no matter the issue, reminds me of politics where it's always the fault of the Reps/Dems depending on who you ask.
                THIS.

                Originally posted by cantpostanon View Post
                As a GNU/Linux user of several distros and as a software developer, I just love SystemD. It's one of the best recent developments in my book, along with Gnome 3, Pulseaudio, (the promise of) Wayland, the open-source graphics drivers.

                There have certainly been some problems but, little by little, everything just works (sensibly! - unlike the Ubuntus).
                have you used ubuntu lately, or you are just repeating the same thing everyone else keeps repeating? also, how come you haven't been hit by ANY bug, if the software is the SAME accross linux distros, not taking into account versions? what magic distro are you using that has no bugs, at all?

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Naib View Post
                  I never said Datenwolf cut up Lennart, It was Lennart that is being an asshole (come on... read the topic and follow the thread). Lennart has been an asshole time and time again, why is he surprised the linux community is then a dick back.
                  I was being sarcastic. But well, maybe I did not convey it good enought.

                  Originally posted by Naib View Post
                  Datenwolf was giving a presentation, maybe aspects of what he was presenting was wrong BUT it was his presentation NOT a discussion. Lennart repeatedly interrupted him (completely putting him off while he was presenting). He then repeatedly did one of the biggest ass things you could do...
                  Datenwolf makes a statement
                  Lennart butts in and talks down to him
                  Lennart finishes
                  Datenwolf goes to start again
                  Lennart IMMEDIATLY interupts him and knocks him down again.

                  If Lennart went to any of the conferences I regularly goto and pulled that shit he would have been told to not interrupt and if he did it again he would have been escorted out. This fucker is an asshole and there is only one way to deal with an asshole and that is find a dick to fuck him OTHERWISE we all get covered in shit!
                  .
                  You might want to rewatch the talk again. Because datenwolf was asked if he was okay with Lennart interupting him or if the Angels (at c3, the helping hands are called Angels) should ask Lennart to shut up or escort him out. To which datenwolf replied "No, no, let him talk. I want to give him some more rope".
                  So yeah, datenwolf was fine with Lennart talking back to him, hell, even encouraged him by directly addressing him while pressenting the slides.

                  Again, datenwolfs talk was utter crap. And that is his fault. He could have said during the talk "please, questions at the end" but no, he wanted questions during the talk. He could have held the talk in German because his English is crap but no, he had to do it in English. He could have talked with the people responsible for the software he was goign to talk about but no,
                  he is not responsible, the others need to read his talk and then correct him on his own faults. Are you kidding me? How is this guy even at a university? This was stuff taught to me in my very first semester. If you give a talk, it is your bloddy responsibility to get your facts straight or people will rip your talk appart and rightfully so.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by sbolokanov View Post
                    They ARE forcing them. I can certainly see why they whine about it.
                    Who exactly is holding a gun to their heads and forcing them to use some software? Why has noone informed the authorities yet?!

                    Or could it be that noone is forcing anyone to use some free software? Are you really expecting developers - people who invest much of their spare time and energy to give away software for free - to go out of their way to give even more just so those whiners get whatever it is they want without ever giving anything of their own except for negativity? Really?

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                    • This thread could be added as an attachment to his post as evidence.

                      I think it's ok to be a little too honest and say "this software is a piece of shit". But it stops at the code.

                      For me, I haven't had a lot of systemd exposure (only the slices of it that ubuntu currently uses), but from what I've read and my experiences with sysadmining it seems very interesting.

                      As for pulseaudio, yeah it had a rough start, but it's been working well for years. And it's great to use. I've even had for two years the Nokia N900, probably the one phone who ever had the audacity of using pulseaudio. And it worked great. The N900's sound system was better than most Android phones and I never had ANY issue with it.

                      Thanks Lennart for pulseaudio, and thanks for not just throwing the towel. The OSS community is supposed to compete on tech. Feel very strongly against systemd and pulseaudio? WELL DO YOUR OWN THING. Just don't expect others to do it for you. And be greatful that you get the chance, it's not like other ecosystems (*cof* windows *cof*) where controversial changes are made and you can do jack shit about it.

                      Also, this thread was an interesting source of additions to my forum ignore list. Some of you really stepped out of line.

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