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  • Originally posted by MartinN View Post
    We're all religious. What do I mean by this? The template is - from the moment you get up till the moment you go to sleep (or die), you do A, B or C... all of which is driven by your personal worldview.. (i.e. 'belief system'), which at its zenith has god (your purpose/meaning) whom you serve - be that the acquisition of money/wealth...knowledge...fame..recognition...admiratio n...whatever fills you up. One could say a lot of people here on Phoronix have technology/science as their god, they live,breathe,"eat" technology every waking moment.... Reason I dragged "religion" (or Christ) into it, is because I am Christian, and at my zenith of behaviors and beliefs, actions, words, it's Jesus.

    You don't hold "religion" at bay, in the way I share it here - your religion is who you are, what you represent.... and shoot for. The right word probably for this might be Being... as Heidegger would put it rather than religion.. We're all being...someone or something. No exceptions. Anyway... enough about this , though it's one of my favorite topics.
    Let me assure you that we are not all religious. You may have been raised in a country where a vast majority are believers, but this is not the case in many country of Europe. Trust me, we do not defined ourselves by our religion and I'm glad we don't

    Anyway, that's entirely off-topic. Hence why I politely asked you not to be put religion in the mix. There seem to be enough fuel in the fire already.

    Originally posted by MartinN View Post
    Going back to my previous example - the marketing company.... there's a majority of women employees there. By your logic, harassment, or general/passive hostility shouldn't occur there? Or is it when we have an ideal 50-50 split between male/female employees, harassment dissipates? This is what I can't explain to myself with these "diversity" programs. Hiring any particular subgroup, on an ethnical, racial, sexual, or any other basis does not preclude, alleviate or dissipate any of these issues. How does one go from hiring more females or more males or more of any group of people to reducing corrupt behavior, is beyond me. I can't connect the dots, honestly.
    That's indeed a very valid question but also an easy one to answer. At work, when most of your coworkers pick on you for a stupid "reason" and you can't really avoid it, it creates stress and we feel rejected. If there are enough people suffering from the same issue, it doesn't matter as much anymore because you can avoid the bullies and simply hang out with the others. When there are enough of both group, they both get to know each others more and are more understanding of each others.

    At least, that's how I felt in environments where I was one of the very limited number of guys (gymnastics), where we had 50-50 (high school) and where we had 2% then 30% of women.

    Originally posted by MartinN View Post
    Ok, maybe I was too harsh in labeling it "wrong"... so I stand corrected. Let me explain better - if there's a really strong candidate, a male, for the position... and virtually hardly any good women candidates for the project - again, I have to contrive here just to make a point - but an entirely possible one - then what we get into is the equivalent of 'affirmative action' (look that up on the ACLU website...) for women. Though affirmative action had its use and run... when taken to an extreme, will produce the EXACT same effect it originally tried to reverse...if we let it rip on inertia, forever, as if it's Gospel and it isn't. rather than people of color... become "victims" in the public perception because of a few asshole males who can't keep their mouths shut at times..... and the rest of the male population who doesn't act out of integrity, gets shafted on the account of a minority.

    So all I am saying is - beware of these "women only", "men only", "homosexuals only", "<insert label> only" programs that foster this victimhood mentality because of a few bad apples..... Laws... have to apply, ideally, to everyone. I know it isn't easy to craft them - thus it's a full time job (Congress...and they suck, but it's the best we got), but that is what bothered me, if you must know.

    I'm a male, for the record.
    Agreed but we won't get women for the sake of getting women. We will still require the same skill-set!

    If you don't believe me, compare the OPW page with the EVoC one. The only difference is gcc and it is because the OPW is not necessarily about code, contrarily to the EVoC.


    • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
      My comment was directed to people saying that women should be paid less because they might get pregnant. That's blatant discrimination...
      Well I agree with that, but that was one guys post. You should probably quote him instead of the guy who I was arguing with (who btw, said something incredibly hypocritical by showing a comic of "guy's generalizing girls" followed directly by a generalization of 'males'... which you apparently thought was a "voice of reason"... sigh...).

      Originally posted by daniels View Post
      The underprovision of successful female role models in IT is a part of what denies women and girls that opportunity. They'll look up and see an entirely male-dominated industry, and even if subconsciously, feel that it's not an industry they fit in, and the horrible misogyny in this thread only reinforces that.
      No, it doesn't deny them the opportunity. You're using the wrong terminology. I mean, are you really suggesting that women need their hand's held in order to get into a profitable industry? BTW, I recognize the imbalance and have stated multiple times already that I support (or better put, "don't see anything wrong with") Xorg/Gnome/whoever spending a small portion of their budgets on outreach programs for women or whoever. What bugs me is that when I argue that gender neutral programs are best (for multiple reasons) I'm called sexist for it. I'm not being sexist, I'm being practical.

      BTW, you're blowing the amount of sexist posts in this thread out of proportion. Which is exactly why so many react in opposite kind. It's true there are opinionated people here (welcome to Phoronix), but only one or two people have been "horribly misogynistic". That's just group mechanics (you see the same irrational responses on any Wayland vs Mir threads), and doesn't lend much of any weight to the need for gender-specific programs (not that there's anything wrong with them).


      • Originally posted by Remdul View Post
        And I would like to add to my earlier comment: there are of course plenty sensible males who totally agree with the cause of gender equality. Please speak up (as I did above) whenever these flamewars arise. I'm optimistic; I believe the whiners are only a vocal minority. This is why we must drown them out! That's how it works!

        So speak up!
        I'm up for gender equality! Let's fight for improve men quantity in areas where they are minority like in many of the humans science!

        What? Why gender equality is to tackle only with women problems? Why can't men stand up for theirs own cause? What a hypocrite equalitarism!


        • lol

          Originally posted by k1l_ View Post
          Start a Outreach Program for all but female sex. And i bet the feminists will tell you what is wrong with that. See?
          And this feminists minion don't see why common sense refuses to accept them as equalitarian...


          • sorry as much I want to be on the political correct side. Maybe there were back some day really some kind of discremination of woman, even always there was the opposite, too.

            But of course if u can spin around that man are allowed to go to war to die is discreminating of woman then of course everthing goes into the opposite world

            But today its sadly the opposite, man fail much more often then woman do.

            I dont have problems with woman be my guest to get such jobs. I dont even see them the guilty except they are some hyperagressive feminist.

            And maybe its ok to do such stuff if there would be similar programs in other fields for mens, there are not. thats the problem.

            We have the wrong parameters in messurement who gets discreminated and who not. we made man heroes so that they were willing to give their live to save the others that was a bribe that man payd a high price for often.

            But again mixing woman into such projects is maybe good. Just in general today men are the ones that are discreminated, they get in a total woman dominated field wherever they go, at home often only or mostly the mother is there, in schools nearly only woman teachers are there, and with that bad start changes they go to collages and what do they see, there are special programm for them to fix that? Lol no the opposite.

            Man are more often victim by physical attacks they are still that people that must work more woman can more likely choose what and how long they work, its more accepted when a woman dont works full-time. But of course thats sexistic because man earn more... lol.

            Instead of concentrating on stupid pseudo sexial discremination. we should be fighting the enslavement of the mass from a few richt guys. the victoms of that are from both sexes.

            We should fight for a generell basic income grant for both genders and everything between. Then nobody can get forced to do soemthing or dont do something.

            If nobody wants the poor poor woman and they really get still discreminated. they sit together and when everybody has their basic income grant they easily can found a new business.

            I want freedom for everybody not sexspecific.

            So my 2cents.

            But subjectivly I think I understand that they feel discreminated, even its not true, because its hard to get any real/good job for both sexes and I can see that some people mistaken taht for something to their group while men with degrees have also no job or bad jobs.


            • Originally posted by steveriley View Post
              What? Equal pay for equal work is discrimination against men?
              I'm explained my reasoning in the very same comment you responded to.


              • Originally posted by R___ View Post
                In complete darkness we are all the same. It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us.
                Seriously, bro? This should have been explained to you a long time ago.


                • Originally posted by M1kkko View Post
                  Fucking hell. This has got to stop. This is the worst kind of gender discrimination attacking directly on one group of people, based on their sex/gender identity. Basically they say you are free to have any sex assigned to you at birth and you are free to identify as anything you may want, EXCEPT you must not be genetically male AND identify as a male at the same time.
                  I always find it funny when these poor little basement dwellers get their manly manpanties in a twist whenever they see "discrimination" of white, heterosexual cisgender males.

                  Where's your outrage on the 90 times more common and 9000 times more real cases of discrimination of women, people of colour, or LGBT people? I don't see people like you calling "discrimination" anywhere else except when it's (supposedly) men being "discriminated" against.

                  Fucking whiny little trolls. Someone should show you the real world for once...

                  Imagine going to a job interview and being told that you may get the job if you are willing to put on a dress and tell them that you don't quite feel like a male all of a sudden.
                  Oh yeah because that's totally how transgender works. You nailed it, bro.

                  If your first thought after reading the headline was 'discrimination!' then YOU ARE EXACTLY THE PROBLEM this is about. Stop the knee jerk, and start thinking.


                  • I tried to read this thread through but gave up on page 4. There's just so many manchilds here who seem to feel so afraid and threatened that their sausage club is getting invaded by icky girlz... I just can't bear it, it's just so fucking sad.

                    Luckily, there are some sensible people around trying to combat the stupid, you know who you are, thanks for that.


                    • Originally posted by nirvanix View Post
                      When gnome came out with their HIG, I knew it had been hijacked by a bunch of socialists. This just confirms it. And of course, like all socialists, they ran out of other people's money.

                      Ok now this is just baffling to me. This has to be shitty trolling?

                      FOSS is all about socialism: everyone giving for the common good. How can you support FOSS and decry socialism? It's an oxymoron...