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New Group Calls For Boycotting Systemd

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  • Originally posted by sdack View Post
    "Go get a runlevel you two!"
    Sigh... (hopefully that was an obvious sigh)

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    • Political things

      I think that is not just about technical things or freedom, but in the way in the things are going there will be no more GNU/Linux, just something like Freedesktop/Linux.
      Some people will hate it.
      GNU project is slowly turning irrelevant, except gcc.

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      • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
        Did you actually read the article? It says first that systemd has to restart to upgrade, but then later on admits that there is actually a built-in mechanism to avoid having to restart.


        If you compare to sysv alone, then yes. If you compare to sysv AND all the shell scripts, then no.


        Upstart was no better in any of these regards.
        Is Upstart's mechanism to prevent reboots to accomplish upgrades similar to systemd's reliance on daemon-reexec command?

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        • Systemd is without doubt the worst thing that has ever happened to Linux but it's highly unlikely that the damage can still be undone. It's too late to save Linux, unfortunately. And migrating to BSD isn't really a solution because you don't always fully control your environment. In a large company chances you'll have to work with servers running operating systems hand-picked and approved by other people who don't really care how detrimental systemd may be (because it'll be your headache and not theirs).

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          • Originally posted by marciosr View Post
            I think that is not just about technical things or freedom, but in the way in the things are going there will be no more GNU/Linux, just something like Freedesktop/Linux.
            Some people will hate it.
            GNU project is slowly turning irrelevant, except gcc.
            No. The GNU project is more than just gcc. This is really only the work of a single man, who happens to work for one of the largest Linux distributions and who has gotten himself a bit of power, probably by upsetting his colleagues with provocations all to the entertainment of the management. It does not mean systemd is bad. It is just immature like all new things.

            I guess Lennert Poettering simply had to do it and never heard of Harley Davidson or red convertibles. The later is what men get into when they feel the need for a total change.

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            • Originally posted by WizardGed View Post
              Guess what, most of the people who were working on nearly all the projects systemd absorbed are were working on systemd and decided it would be easier to target 1 platform. Don't get butthurt if those developers decide they want to merge into systemd and no one:
              A) has the skill
              or
              B) simply dont care about

              supporting X other awful init system. If you have a problem step up and fix it or pay for somone else to fix it. otherwise all your doing is acting like a 2 year old who doesnt like the new safer toy thats replacing his old dangerous toy.
              What exactly is so awful about the present init system that it needs to be replaced? Is your system not booting up now? My i3 with a mechanical hard drive boots up in 5 seconds running a regular init. Do you really think that I need it to boot up faster than that? Because I'm here now to tell you that I do not. I also do not need an init that is more than 10 times as complex as the one I am currently using either.

              You seem to want to praise people who are willing to make an effort to lead everyone else down a garden path. Yet in the same breath you condemn us when we make an effort to resist a move into suspect territory. For you to have any credibility you are going to have to actually come up with some valid reasons for us to abandon what we already have.

              No, people just doing shit isn't a valid reason either. What kind of a lemming are you?

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              • To your hardware scripts are MORE complex than binaries

                Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
                What exactly is so awful about the present init system that it needs to be replaced? Is your system not booting up now? My i3 with a mechanical hard drive boots up in 5 seconds running a regular init. Do you really think that I need it to boot up faster than that? Because I'm here now to tell you that I do not. I also do not need an init that is more than 10 times as complex as the one I am currently using either
                To the actual hardware, a single executable binary for any particular init task is a hell of a lot simpler than running a larger general purpose interpreter binary with an ascii script as the argument it is called with. Simple to the user and simple to the hardware are often directly opposite oneanother. A happy medium would be for each module to have simple, easy to understand source that compiles easily to the final binaries without a lot of otherwise unused build dependencies.

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                • Linux does not need to be "saved" from Systemd

                  Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
                  Systemd is without doubt the worst thing that has ever happened to Linux but it's highly unlikely that the damage can still be undone. It's too late to save Linux, unfortunately. And migrating to BSD isn't really a solution because you don't always fully control your environment. In a large company chances you'll have to work with servers running operating systems hand-picked and approved by other people who don't really care how detrimental systemd may be (because it'll be your headache and not theirs).
                  Systemd does not send my personal information to the NSA or the FBI, Systemd does not require me to pay money for Linux. Systemd does not expose me to lawsuits for modifying or redistributing itself or any other component of a Linux disto. Systemd did not even stop me from using a custom boot script to unlock mulitple encrypted drives, I was able to port it over in days. And no, Systemd does not change my legal rights to write such software or ANY software.

                  In short, Linux still works, it is still under the GPL, the source is available for Systemd (I have it myself and personally went over the Cryptsetup module), and it is free to redistribute, fork, modify, et all. What Linux was two years ago it still it in terms of rights and deterrence of state-sponsored backdoors, and it may be more interoperable than before between distros thanks to systemd.

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                  • Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
                    What exactly is so awful about the present init system that it needs to be replaced?
                    The answer is "nothing" but you can't get it through. Like all dull kids systemd fanboys have selective perception and about zero real-life experience. When you criticize systemd (no matter how reasonably and constructively) they label you a luddite or a BSD troll and that's it.

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                    • Originally posted by prodigy_ View Post
                      The answer is "nothing" but you can't get it through. Like all dull kids systemd fanboys have selective perception and about zero real-life experience. When you criticize systemd (no matter how reasonably and constructively) they label you a luddite or a BSD troll and that's it.
                      You must have had your fallacious reasoning pointed out to you a hundred times already, and yet here you are yet again bringing up the same old nonsense. Is it any wonder people think you're a Luddite?

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