Originally posted by anda_skoa
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Lennart Poettering Talks Up His New Linux Vision That Involves Btrfs
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostAs I tried to hint earlier with my example, blackberry's requirements and resources are not the same as other small ISV's and the typical solution from ISV's is to bundled everything they need within their "installers". Hardly something worth advocating for.
Sure, integrating into a central distribution mechanism like an app store has some advantages, but it also requires more work.
Hence not all software available in app stores on platforms that don't require going through the app store, e.g. Windows.
I don't understand why ISVs seem to have some kind of selective amnesia that makes them forget all their knowledge and experience about installers if the platform at hand is Linux. It is not one of the platforms that require an app store, is it?
Don't get me wrong, I find traditional installers that bundle apps and their dependencies also less the ideal, but I fail to see what gain ISVs think they get by totally ignoring that option.
There are even installer builders that can create Windows and Linux (and probably also OS X) installers from the same input file, for $deity's sake!
Cheers,
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Originally posted by anda_skoa View PostDon't get me wrong, I find traditional installers that bundle apps and their dependencies also less the ideal, but I fail to see what gain ISVs think they get by totally ignoring that option.
There are even installer builders that can create Windows and Linux (and probably also OS X) installers from the same input file, for $deity's sake!
Cheers,
_
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostNot really. It is being proposed by the same set of people and they would notice that kind of overlap if it exists Sandboxing doesn't solve the problem since I would be forced to bundle a private copy of the library I need and even if sandboxing is fool proof (and history of such technologies have shown that it isn't), it only solves the security problem and doesn't solve the waste of resources (including but not limited to memory and disk space) problem. In other words, this is sweeping the problem under the rug and pretending that it doesn't exist as opposed to finding a systematic solution.
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Originally posted by ryao View PostWould you define the problem? If the problem involves bundled libraries, I believe that proper use of dpkg solved that problem on Linux distributions about 20 years ago. .
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostThey don't ignore it.
Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostIn Windows or Mac, they have more well defined interfaces and runtimes.
Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostThe so called cross platform installers make it even more harder when you want to say fix heartbleed for your customers.
Sure it is not as nice as having updates triggered and managed centrally, but basically only Linux distributions do that, even the heralded app stores require an update release.
Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostThe first step in solving such problems is acknowledging that they exist.
Cheers,
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Originally posted by anda_skoa View PostSure, but ignoring existing solutions one has great experience with, as ISVs have with installers, is not helping either.
Cheers,
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All this fuss makes me wish someone would invent a new interpreter language. A language capable of executing perl, python, java, bash, gawk and lua scripts, is on average 95% compatible to all of them and optimizes itself with the help of LLVM's jit compiler, but also just as lua is missing the "continue" statement, and all for the sole purpose of replacing /bin/sh. Well, it still would be better than the idea of replacing all the proteins in your food with genetically enhanced soybeans, but presenting it as a vision also makes it feel like a threat, which is being presented with a smile.
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post"Great experience"? That is silly. If the solutions you suggest work so well for them, they will already be using it. It is not like they haven't tried it out already.
check out the savagexr's installer, loki installer (UT2k4) and ati binary installer
also check out Ryan Gordon porting games to linux speech where he clearly notes how "targeting multiple distros" is not really a problem and has never been
(without the LSB FSH standard it would be a small problem, but those days are past)
proprietary programs usually go with a short list of dependencies for a user to install, clearly listed when you dl it
that list of dependencies can also be sent to the package manager to do automatically (ofc you would need to input your password)
so using the loki installer or making a, similar, simple one and releasing it under idk the MIT license and problem solved
and no, it is not better on windows
remember 98-xp days when games were asking you if you want to install directx and such ?
was that a problem ?
problem is it is new for companies and they don't have people that know linux good enough to make accurate assumptions
so it's just an imaginary problem; good Ryan is here to let the companies knowLast edited by gens; 03 September 2014, 08:27 PM.
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Originally posted by gens View Postproblem is it is new for companies and they don't have people that know linux good enough to make accurate assumptions
so it's just an imaginary problem; good Ryan is here to let the companies know
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