Lennart Poettering Talks Up His New Linux Vision That Involves Btrfs

[gens]

"Imaginary problem"? You might want to let Linus know that he is just ignorant and doesn't know Linux enough when he mentions that his dive log program doesn't have a Linux executable because it is a hard problem and he doesn't want to deal with it but he is willing to make a Windows and Mac OS X executable.

never heard him say that, only about gtk being crap
you mean on the web page ?
am sure all distros have it in their repository; hell i have it in slackbuilds (sbopkg)

i also have a rpm2txz script as standard in slackware that converts rpm to txz
should work fine for everything except things that start at boot and such (those things are usually standard across distros, like http)

also check out http://www.skype.com/en/download-sky...-for-computer/ , there is a "dynamic" option

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Installers_for_Linux_Gamers

games are one of the more complex programs

there is also plenty of apps that give you just a tar.gz that you unpack anywhere and just use (dwarf fortress, blender, team viewer, etc etc)
an installer on top of that would just unpack it some where safe and make a .desktop file in your ~/.local/share/applications/
like for example the savagexr installer puts everything in /usr/local/savage-xr/ and makes a .desktop file
can't remember if it puts the .desktop in global or local, again that is an option that an installer can ask you

also what are these ppl doing ? http://www.freedesktop.org/software/.../pk-intro.html

another thing i found is a cross distro (and from disassembling it i guess cross platform) virus/botnet
that i can give you a copy if you want (has debug symbols and everything)

PS linus is making that program for himself and just shares it for the why not
if you got a video or text of him saying that installing arbitrary programs on linux is hard, please point it out

[RahulSundaram]

never heard him say that

also what are these ppl doing ? http://www.freedesktop.org/software/.../pk-intro.html

if you got a video or text of him saying that installing arbitrary programs on linux is hard, please point it out

PackageKit (which I have contributed to) provides a generic API layer over existing package management tools so that say LibreOffice can install a add-on if it is available in the distribution repository. It has nothing much to do with third party ISV's. It is not a installer by itself.

If you want the video, feel free to look at

http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

Listen to all of it carefully.

[gens]

PackageKit (which I have contributed to) provides a generic API layer over existing package management tools so that say LibreOffice can install a add-on if it is available in the distribution repository. It has nothing much to do with third party ISV's. It is not a installer by itself.

If you want the video, feel free to look at

http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

Listen to all of it carefully.

is it where he says that ? otherwise i CBA to listen to over an hour talk about packagekit

also do you have an opinion on the loki setup installer ?
i do put much faith in Ryan to know wtf he is talking about, and he says distro fragmentation is bollocks
https://icculus.org/SteamDevDays/Ste...nuxPorting.pdf (can't find the video, there are a couple linked by Michael in hes articles)

[RahulSundaram]

is it where he says that ? otherwise i CBA to listen to over an hour talk about packagekit

also do you have an opinion on the loki setup installer ?
i do put much faith in Ryan to know wtf he is talking about, and he says distro fragmentation is bollocks
https://icculus.org/SteamDevDays/Ste...nuxPorting.pdf (can't find the video, there are a couple linked by Michael in hes articles)

Your question about the video is easily answered by just clicking on the link I provided. If you don't want to listen, then don't.

Loki installer was designed for games which tend to bundle a minimum number of small utility libraries where you release once and practically never update them ever again and Ryan is a game developer so it isn't a surprise that he doesn't see the problem. Others have widely different needs and a bundling type of installer isn't a good solution for them since there is a significant maintenance cost to bundling if you want to provide ongoing releases, upgrades etc.

[gens]

Your question about the video is easily answered by just clicking on the link I provided. If you don't want to listen, then don't.

Loki installer was designed for games which tend to bundle a minimum number of small utility libraries where you release once and practically never update them ever again and Ryan is a game developer so it isn't a surprise that he doesn't see the problem. Others have widely different needs and a bundling type of installer isn't a good solution for them since there is a significant maintenance cost to bundling if you want to provide ongoing releases, upgrades etc.

as i stated if it is not about what you stated that linus himself states, then i have no motive to listen to it now do i ?

as for the rest... i told you already that games are among the most complex proprietary programs
if you excuse me i go now do something smarter like playing cs or... just about anything else

[RahulSundaram]

as i stated if it is not about what you stated that linus himself states, then i have no motive to listen to it now do i ?

as for the rest... i told you already that games are among the most complex proprietary programs
if you excuse me i go now do something smarter like playing cs or... just about anything else

I have told you what is in that video and you asked for it for reference and I have provided it. What you do with it is upto you.

As for games, they are certainly complex but not typically in terms of dependencies.

[mrmcq2u]

I have told you what is in that video and you asked for it for reference and I have provided it. What you do with it is upto you.

As for games, they are certainly complex but not typically in terms of dependencies.

You're wasting your time. If someone is too lazy to watch a video reference then you're better off leaving them be.
People that need things spelled out to that extent don't have opinions worth debating.

[BlackStar]

Linus starts ranting about how difficult it is to distribute software on Linux around 5:35 and again around the 26-27 mark. He describes the exact issue that Lennart is trying to solve.

The whole video is worth it if you have some time to spare: http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

[anda_skoa]

"Great experience"? That is silly.

No, just a bad choice of words due to English not being my primary language.
I meant plenty of experience.

If the solutions you suggest work so well for them, they will already be using it.

Those who want to have customers on the Linux platform do that indeed.

But there a lots of other who whine about packaging in order to have an excuse for not meeting their customers' demands.

Not everyone has the resources of Google or Blackberry.

That statement is in itself of course true, but not at all relevant.
Basically all ISVs ship their product in binary form, only very few ship sources only.

I doubt that all those free ware and share ware authors whos products one can download on sites such as download.com have sumitted their sources and had the hoster build it.
More likely they had the resources do create their installers themselves, apparently even without having Google's or BlackBerry's resources.

Cheers,
_

[sdack]

Linus starts ranting about how difficult it is to distribute software on Linux around 5:35 and again around the 26-27 mark. He describes the exact issue that Lennart is trying to solve.

The whole video is worth it if you have some time to spare: http://t.co/jUSBbSAsrN

Thanks for the link. It was not very interesting, but I do agree with Linus that one should still respect it when people do start with something and come with a solution, even when the solution is not the best, but shows to be better than no solution at all.

At around 24min did Linus also say that he laughed Lennert out of the rooms once for some other idea. I think what it means is that one should judge a solution only based on its merits.