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  • #91
    Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    You mean Corporatism not Capitalism, Capitalism hasn't been used in practice in hundreds of years, and things like "public" companies (and hence stock markets) and intellectual property are inherently anti-capitalistic.
    That's the point. Even if we had such a "true" capitalism, we would end up right here. When capital accumulation means power, our system becomes inherently corrupted as powerful people interfere with laws or rules to become even more powerful. That's what happened historically and that's what will happen again if we adopt, again, that "true" capitalism.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by brk0_0 View Post
      That's the point. Even if we had such a "true" capitalism, we would end up right here. When capital accumulation means power, our system becomes inherently corrupted as powerful people interfere with laws or rules to become even more powerful. That's what happened historically and that's what will happen again if we adopt, again, that "true" capitalism.
      Well the problem with that statement is that the issues that arise are a function of government not a function of capitalism, regardless of the economic system involved government by nature is prone to corruption, and it spreads this corruption into the economic system when things like intellectual property and regulatory agencies and even national militaries are brought in by creating power-sinks.

      The solution isn't a change in the economic system but actually applying capitalism to the government thus creating a system of government known as federalism. Pure federalism (a government based on federalism at every level, national-state-regional-local) is required though to ensure a minimal amount of corruption and the encapsulation of corruption which the system will then work out and crush. Just as an example a shift from a national military to even just a state based military (not to speak of shifting it down to regional or local) prevents a massive amount of interventionist policies because then the cost of maintaining a military is shifted to the states and as a result they are less inclined to put troops out for a national effort because they don't just have so much money to throw around, as a result costly intervention is avoided thus preventing massive harm to the local economy (which isn't to speak of harm done to others) and prevents power plays along that vector, as well it also prevents a rogue national government from oppressing it's citizens through military force, whereas state and lower level militaries can band against each other in the case of going rogue. Moral law being distributed to the private citizen and their respective religion as opposed to forming part of the secular law also prevents a great deal of injustice as another example, more commonly termed as "Separation of Church and State", is really a federalist idea of distributing power appropriately.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
        Well the problem with that statement is that the issues that arise are a function of government not a function of capitalism, regardless of the economic system involved government by nature is prone to corruption, and it spreads this corruption into the economic system when things like intellectual property and regulatory agencies and even national militaries are brought in thus creating power-sinks.
        .
        correction

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        • #94
          Originally posted by stikonas View Post
          Indeed, Firefox is open source. Anybody is free to fork it and remove the ads. I am sure Iceweasel and Icecat will ship without any ads.
          I'd use Iceweasel more only if the bugs are ironed out as IW is buggier than the plain vanilla Firefox IMO.

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          • #95
            I'll take bugs over ads any time

            Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
            I'd use Iceweasel more only if the bugs are ironed out as IW is buggier than the plain vanilla Firefox IMO.
            I cannot imagine any circumstance in which I would agree to ads in return for less buggy software. Given the whole privacy and security infrastructure that
            has evolved around Firefox, I suspect that someone will surely fork it. Torbrowser is already a fork of Firefox, so the code from Torbrowser could simply
            be borrrowed and altered to reenable running with a direct connection to the Internet and not through Vidalia. You would install this alongside Torbrowser:
            one for Tor work and one for everything else. The reason Torbrowser is set to crash if Vidalia stops is because an accidental non-Tor connection when a Tor
            connection was intended could literally get someone killed, tortured, or imprisoned for life.

            I can't see Torbrowser ever enabling ad tiles...

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            • #96
              Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
              I'd use Iceweasel more only if the bugs are ironed out as IW is buggier than the plain vanilla Firefox IMO.
              I've been using iceweasel for years and years.. Is it really that much different from normal firefox?..
              I've been using debian for many years, and I don't think debian have normal firefox in its repositories, and I usually try to stick only with stuff that is in the debian repos (most of the time).. But iceweasel works good, at least for me any way..

              A related question: I thought debian was the only distrobution with iceweasel.. Is iceweasel actually on other distrobutions as well?..

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              • #97
                Anyone can download from Debian repos

                Originally posted by Baconmon View Post
                I've been using iceweasel for years and years.. Is it really that much different from normal firefox?..
                I've been using debian for many years, and I don't think debian have normal firefox in its repositories, and I usually try to stick only with stuff that is in the debian repos (most of the time).. But iceweasel works good, at least for me any way..

                A related question: I thought debian was the only distrobution with iceweasel.. Is iceweasel actually on other distrobutions as well?..
                Just fetch it from the Debian repos and install in manually. In my experience browser builds tend to be rather portable, I've used out-of-version browsers in Ubuntu-based systems with no issues, I suspect that Debian builds of Iceweasel would also be compatable.

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                • #98
                  Phoronix and isms

                  Words. Capitalism, the system where the means of production are owned and controlled by a little minority. The capitalists or oligarchs. In capitast states they control the corporations, the banking systems, and also the states. Well, in large degree that is.

                  Free culture movement, foss, labour unions, cooperatives, family enterprizes, democratic institutions and socialism. - They represents alternatives, or counter forces, to the capitalist ways of coersion.

                  Ok, the Phoronix blog operates in a capitalists environment, but itself is not AFAIK under capitalist exploitation. The owner/worker needs money as we all do. He use ads for the capitalist corporations to get income. I do not blame him, but I will never open my brain for capitalist corporations propagana for him. So I use Adblock. Sane people use adblock. The crying about that might make people go away.

                  I hope Phoronix find other ways. What abou Flattr or other donation button vissible?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by risotto77 View Post
                    Words. Capitalism, the system where the means of production are owned and controlled by a little minority. The capitalists or oligarchs. In capitast states they control the corporations, the banking systems, and also the states. Well, in large degree that is.

                    Free culture movement, foss, labour unions, cooperatives, family enterprizes, democratic institutions and socialism. - They represents alternatives, or counter forces, to the capitalist ways of coersion.

                    Ok, the Phoronix blog operates in a capitalists environment, but itself is not AFAIK under capitalist exploitation. The owner/worker needs money as we all do. He use ads for the capitalist corporations to get income. I do not blame him, but I will never open my brain for capitalist corporations propagana for him. So I use Adblock. Sane people use adblock. The crying about that might make people go away.

                    I hope Phoronix find other ways. What abou Flattr or other donation button vissible?
                    Corporatism not Capitalism. They are two completely different and opposed ideas. Capitalism due to lacking the concept of IP and regulatory agencies does not allow anyone to dictate what others may or may not do (other than violate the life, liberty, or property of other individuals), and as a result everyone has the freedom to produce even if not everyone at any particular point in time has the resources to produce. A perfect case study of capitalism in force vs corporatism is actually the video game industry if we examine the difference between the publisher controlled games vs independently published games. The former is a slow lumbering monster which only produces a few games per year, and they are limited in category and rarely innovative because intellectual property has ensured that that side has settled into an oligopoly, meanwhile in the independent game field innovation abounds not just in the games themselves but how to fund them and other similar questions, and genres are re-saturating because digital distribution and private investments (through crowd funding) allows the actual creators to circumvent all regulation, which allows these tiny pockets of capitalism to exist, even if no economic system has actually been properly based on it in a long time.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                      Corporatism not Capitalism. They are two completely different and opposed ideas. Capitalism due to lacking the concept of IP and regulatory agencies does not allow anyone to dictate what others may or may not do (other than violate the life, liberty, or property of other individuals), and as a result everyone has the freedom to produce even if not everyone at any particular point in time has the resources to produce.
                      That is a false dichotomy I believe. Capitalism and corporatism are integrated and symbiotic.
                      Capitalism deals with separation between owners and subordinated wage labourers and the maximizing of profit for the owners.
                      The corporations are tools to do so. They operate under capitalist conditions and for the capitalist intention.

                      Property are basis of capitalism and IP is a natural effect of capitalism. The owner class would like to own everything. They want to own your food and your genes, the land and the oceans and the air too.
                      Yes the corporations do work for these 'developments'. But please ask yourself 'for whom?' do they work for.

                      Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                      A perfect case study of capitalism in force vs corporatism is actually the video game industry if we examine the difference between the publisher controlled games vs independently published games.
                      The former is a slow lumbering monster which only produces a few games per year, and they are limited in category and rarely innovative because intellectual property has ensured that that side has settled into an oligopoly, meanwhile in the independent game field innovation abounds not just in the games themselves but how to fund them and other similar questions, and genres are re-saturating because digital distribution and private investments (through crowd funding) allows the actual creators to circumvent all regulation, which allows these tiny pockets of capitalism to exist, even if no economic system has actually been properly based on it in a long time.
                      But independent artists and studios are (often) opposite to the capitalist structure. They own their own labour, individually or in cooperatives. Crowd funding is opposite to capitalist investment.
                      Where capitalist investment is for profit and labour exploitation, crowd funding is for use value.

                      Oligopolies or monopolies have been known to be effects of capitalism since the first serious critics in the 19th century.

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