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  • #71
    Originally posted by cbgoding View Post
    The problem with moral absolutism with God as the source of morals is that it would appear that God's own morals have changed. If we look at the old testament, the laws and morals that appear there are drastically different than what is seen in the new testament.

    If you believe that Jesus freed us from sacrificing animals to God, then Jesus is a moral relativist.
    You may be onto something here with this theology, i.e. God being a "moral relativist". It's also possible that we pervert his laws and interpret them however it suits us, unless you believe your view of God is -the- right one and every other invalid, in which case, I retract what I said and the discussion is over. If you suspect your view might not be the right one... read on for an alternate view (and I'm not claiming mine is right, just that you ought to consider it instead of shut it down in contempt, without consideration, like some others here who couldn't bother to even read the sources I posted).

    Here's how I understand the topic of animal sacrifice, since you brought it up - animal sacrifices have ended because Jesus Christ was the ultimate and perfect sacrifice. John the Baptist recognized this when he saw Jesus coming to be baptized and said, ?Look, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!? (John 1:29). You may be wondering, why animals? What did they do wrong? And therein lies the rub ? since the animals did no wrong, they died in place of the one performing the sacrifice to atone for the sins of men (prior to Christ, in the OT).

    Jesus Christ also did no wrong but willingly gave Himself to die for the sins of mankind (1 Timothy 2:6). Jesus Christ took our sin upon Himself and died in our place. 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, ?God made him (Jesus) who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.? Through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on the cross, we can receive forgiveness.

    Animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of sin. The animal served as a substitute?that is, the animal died in place of the sinner, but only temporarily, which is why the sacrifices needed to be offered over and over. Animal sacrifices have stopped with Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the ultimate sacrificial substitute once for all time. (Hebrews 7:27)

    God does not change his mind, contrary to what you may think (Malachi 3:6). The Scriptures that are interpreted as God seeming to change His mind are human attempts to explain the actions of God. God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God does what He needs to do to cause humanity to fulfill His perfect plan.

    If you'd like additional alternate views to your own on the topic of God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit, please let me know. If you prefer your view of God, thank you for listening, and good luck to you as well!

    Comment


    • #72
      Originally posted by reCAPTCHA View Post
      Ok then trust me, you should not trust people you don't know very, very well, especially organizations who serve power hungry people, who own/control corporations, which (is this not obvious.) exploit 80% of this globe, so that lucky cotton picker in Africa has to work one year to earn 50$. Yes one year salary.

      I really don't know why have I typed this.
      Corporations that you and I work for . Sounds like you have an issue with greed, or am I not hearing you correct?

      I trust you as well as the people who work for the NSA equally. I am aware that they (or you) may not even have my best interests at heart. Worst case, they (or you) may kill me. Knowing all that, I choose to trust you, everyone else here and the NSA people equally, even if it cost me my life.

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      • #73
        Try writing a simple script or binary with religion as a dependency

        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
        There is no point in going further in this discussion because you do not believe there is a supreme moral law given by God. You do have a "god", it's just not the God I worship, the God in the Bible, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

        I completely understand if these things are lost on you, or like you said ... "irrelevant".

        Good luck with your own morals (or lack thereof).

        We can now get back to the topic at hand - Linux
        Her's a challenge for you: Write a program in ANY language, for ANY hardware, carrying out ANY function, that works if and only if any one belief in any one religion happens to be true. Let's see a program that can only be run if Christianity (or any other religion) is true-or one that can only be run if it is false, either one will do.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by Luke View Post
          Her's a challenge for you: Write a program in ANY language, for ANY hardware, carrying out ANY function, that works if and only if any one belief in any one religion happens to be true. Let's see a program that can only be run if Christianity (or any other religion) is true-or one that can only be run if it is false, either one will do.
          printf("42. I am the truth, the light and the way\n");



          Luke, I get that you genuinely believe that there is many ways to God, outside of Christ... or worse, that God is b.s., religion is opium for the masses or other some such self serving crap we tell ourselves to feel good and justify our own sin and/or faithlessness.....

          ... or perhaps you believe that cold, hard hardware and bits and our creations (programs) that run on it do not serve moral (or amoral) purposes, even if it's something as useless as the above program... asserting its own arrogance for no other reason than to be arrogant and defiant .

          I do like your name though - St. Luke . Maybe you will live up to it??

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          • #75
            Your program only echos programmer input

            Originally posted by MartinN View Post
            printf("42. I am the truth, the light and the way\n");



            Luke, I get that you genuinely believe that there is many ways to God, outside of Christ... or worse, that God is b.s., religion is opium for the masses or other some such self serving crap we tell ourselves to feel good and justify our own sin and/or faithlessness.....

            ... or perhaps you believe that cold, hard hardware and bits and our creations (programs) that run on it do not serve moral (or amoral) purposes, even if it's something as useless as the above program... asserting its own arrogance for no other reason than to be arrogant and defiant .

            I do like your name though - St. Luke . Maybe you will live up to it??
            Your program only echos the input from the programmer. My challenge is to write a program whose ouput varies with the truth or lack therof or any particular religion.

            You cite religion to defend computerized crime by the heirs of the old Romans, I am challenging you to use a computer to verify your claims. I can prove Native American prophecies about what happens when the last river has been poisoned, the last fish has been caught, and the last tree has been cut (the white man finds he cannot eat money) to be true and need only a web browser and online news videos to do so. In other words, the output of Firefox with HTML5 when pointed to news videos varies with the validity of Native American prophecies about what happens to those who destroy the land.

            Can you write or find a program whose output varies with the truth or lack theorf of what you believe? If you can't write a program, a news video proving divine intervention in ANYTHING would vary the output of a web browser with that fact.

            Comment


            • #76
              Originally posted by Luke View Post
              Your program only echos the input from the programmer. My challenge is to write a program whose ouput varies with the truth or lack therof or any particular religion.

              You cite religion to defend computerized crime by the heirs of the old Romans, I am challenging you to use a computer to verify your claims. I can prove Native American prophecies about what happens when the last river has been poisoned, the last fish has been caught, and the last tree has been cut (the white man finds he cannot eat money) to be true and need only a web browser and online news videos to do so. In other words, the output of Firefox with HTML5 when pointed to news videos varies with the validity of Native American prophecies about what happens to those who destroy the land.

              Can you write or find a program whose output varies with the truth or lack theorf of what you believe? If you can't write a program, a news video proving divine intervention in ANYTHING would vary the output of a web browser with that fact.
              I don't know how to write such a program, because I don't understand what it is you want me to write. Perhaps you could demonstrate what it is you mean with a sample code.

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              • #77
                I do not know a way to read divine influence from /dev/random or /dev/urandom

                Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                I don't know how to write such a program, because I don't understand what it is you want me to write. Perhaps you could demonstrate what it is you mean with a sample code.
                I have yet to figure out a way to do this, short of something like King Canute's test of hie believed absolute power: he commanded the sea to go out in a rising tide and the tide ignored him. He then concluded the Divine Right of Kings was BS. You could ask your god to send a message that would be pulled from the output of /dev/urandom and when interpreted as ASCII or something would make a readable message.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by Luke View Post
                  I have yet to figure out a way to do this, short of something like King Canute's test of hie believed absolute power: he commanded the sea to go out in a rising tide and the tide ignored him. He then concluded the Divine Right of Kings was BS. You could ask your god to send a message that would be pulled from the output of /dev/urandom and when interpreted as ASCII or something would make a readable message.
                  You're a funny guy too!

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Couldn't help myself.

                    I simply couldn't resist this one, so I've just logged in for the first time in quite a while.

                    @MartinN

                    You scare me. Not because I am immoral or unethical by your definition, and in your line of fire so to speak, but because you are worryingly opposed to common sense.

                    Your answer to everything worldly is to point at an entity whom I cannot see, hear, touch, taste, smell, debate, reason with, measure or study in any way whatsoever. But there is this book you see... A book which lays out what is apparently right and virtuous. (Moral and ethical). Never mind that this book sanctions the initiation of force against people for what we would all now consider acceptable acts. Never mind that it condemn gay people. Never mind it condemns black people. Never mind that it supposedly documents the initiation of the worst genocide in history (by god) where babies (BABIES) are targeted just the same as adults (what could they possibly have done?). No don't worry about that, because the rest of what "he" writes (or had transcribed) is morally and ethically sound, that right?

                    Well...

                    I know this entity MartinN. You cannot see, hear, touch, taste, smell, debate, reason with, measure, study anything to do with this entity. Unfortunately for you though MartinN, this entity is very powerful and seems to think you religious types are terrorists, and wants to punish you. Its logic is sound and unquestionable because it holds the biggest metadata store of your movements in history. It knows where you are at all times and has the power to will others to kill you in the blink on an eye.

                    I wonder what the employees of the NSA believe to be moral and ethical? I could bet that some of them have a real problem with religious types.

                    Anyway, with regard to the webcam thing

                    If anybody (ANYBODY) interferes in my life to my detriment (as long as I am not harming others), they are immoral and unethical to me. And that there is all the definition of Moral or ethical you as an individual could possibly need.

                    -------->If anybody (ANYBODY) interferes in YOUR (you the readers) life to YOUR detriment (as long as you are not harming others), those people are immoral and unethical to you.<---------

                    It is dangerous to have any one entity, whether it be god, the NSA, the governemnt or other, decide what constitues moral and ethical. Everyone has a different perspective and no one has the right to impose there pperspective on any other by force.

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                    • #80
                      I got it. Not that it will be of any help to you, but I can recommend C.S. Lewis' "The problem of pain" for you, if you want to learn of God's character... or a brief summary about the cruelty of God - http://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-cruel.html.

                      You're a very dramatic guy... and I sense a bit of a victim-mentality, from how you write ... poor this or that, "oh the injustice", or "oh how is THAT right". I love it how you are convinced of your own goodness & morality too . It's hilarious.

                      Good luck to you and your interpretation of a god who is soooooo good ... and fits your criteria of how he ought to be - you know... touchable...pleasurable...measurable...heck, maybe you can even push a button and say a prayer, and he should deliver for you .

                      Can we PLEASE get back on topic rather than have geeks come out of the woodwork pretending to have Ph.D.'s in theology (or self-invented rationality and common sense, rather ?)

                      Originally posted by fnoss View Post
                      I simply couldn't resist this one, so I've just logged in for the first time in quite a while.
                      ...

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