Gnome kills KDE

[phor20]

Omg

Omg, this thread makes me want to sell all my linux based equipment.
You should be proud, MS never managed that.

[tuubi]

XFCE is much much worse than MATE.
It basically reuses all MATE/GNOME2 stuff and does LESS while consuming just a LITTLE less.
Actually, it might just use MORE than MATE, because it does not come with (complete) desktop software and relies upon GTK3 apps, while MATE is fully featured in GTK2.

For servers, yes, good environment. But for long time work, hardly.

Have you actually worked with Xfce? You don't seem to know much about it. Besides, resource usage has little to do with productivity on a work station desktop. Please don't mix baseless opinion with objective truth, even if the opinion happens to be yours.

[brosis]

Have you actually worked with Xfce? You don't seem to know much about it.

SInce 4.2, up to 4.10. I remember 4.8 very good when memory consumption skyrocketed. The 4.6 required about 40 MiB of RAM. Its still under-functional, the file manager still cant change property of multiple files at once, it lacks a lot of features present in Nautilus (Gnome2) while consuming just a little less resources. The picture viewer (which was kinda stupid move anyway) is of same functionality as EoG, replaced with Gthumb almost every installation. The status bar has a lot less plugins available than Gnome2, was a lot harder to tune and looked ugly up to version 4.8. The theming is kinda awkward compared to Gnome2, but it works out, surprisingly now better than Gnome3. Rightclick main menu like *box is kinda cool (it still is). So, what else - keyboard layout was not changable directly (similar to E17 hehe) up to 4.8 (Xorg.conf.d edit galore!), Gnome2 did it better, but again Gnome3 up to 3.10 was outright impossible, hidden beyond config somewhere, only accessible via Gnome config tool and even then named very weird (Gnome3.10 finally did it right).
So, still, even now Xfce is worse than MATE a lot in functionality, while being just a bit less in memory footprint (Xfce 4.10 consumes about 80-100 megs now).

Besides, resource usage has little to do with productivity on a work station desktop.

Pardon me, where did I talk about WORKSTATION? I talked about my crappy notebook with poor 2GiBs of RAM and superweak dualcore. I still use XFCE on pentium4 based mediastation/server and my primary workstation (combined with compiz; only taskbar is left from Xfce).

Please don't mix baseless opinion with objective truth, even if the opinion happens to be yours.

Holy sh!t, where is my opinion baseless? I have given a lot of argumentation why MATE>XFCE>Gnome3 for my usecase, and your ?objective truth? has no counter-arguments at all, like its coming from God. Excuse me, your Highness, for confusing your silhouette with that of a normal unreasonable troll (or blind fanboi), because both of you seems to output the same baseless accusations and insisting on their unquestionality. Please don't beat me, the linux user, to death with stones.

[brosis]

Have you actually worked with Xfce? You don't seem to know much about it.

Btw, I don't think that XFCE will update to GTK3, which it kinda should... Because, for example, the Leafpad developers refused to go GTK3 at all, so I had to get l3afpad, in order to get non-bloated text editor for G3. On the contrary, the MATE Devs actually map switching over to GTK3.

[tuubi]

SInce 4.2, up to 4.10. I remember 4.8 very good when memory consumption skyrocketed. The 4.6 required about 40 MiB of RAM. Its still under-functional, the file manager still cant change property of multiple files at once, it lacks a lot of features present in Nautilus (Gnome2) while consuming just a little less resources. The picture viewer (which was kinda stupid move anyway) is of same functionality as EoG, replaced with Gthumb almost every installation. The status bar has a lot less plugins available than Gnome2, was a lot harder to tune and looked ugly up to version 4.8. The theming is kinda awkward compared to Gnome2, but it works out, surprisingly now better than Gnome3. Rightclick main menu like *box is kinda cool (it still is). So, what else - keyboard layout was not changable directly (similar to E17 hehe) up to 4.8 (Xorg.conf.d edit galore!), Gnome2 did it better, but again Gnome3 up to 3.10 was outright impossible, hidden beyond config somewhere, only accessible via Gnome config tool and even then named very weird (Gnome3.10 finally did it right).
So, still, even now Xfce is worse than MATE a lot in functionality, while being just a bit less in memory footprint (Xfce 4.10 consumes about 80-100 megs now).

We (my family and our small business) use Xfce on rather high end desktops and laptops with several gigs of ram, so a memory footprint of a few megabytes less isn't really a selling point for us. And still we prefer Xfce over MATE. In my opinion Thunar happens to be the best file manager around with the exact feature set I need and support for custom actions to top it off. The UI is (again, in my opinion) cleaner and nicer than Nautilus has ever been. Choice of apps like picture viewers, media players and stuff like that are up to the distros, but I'm happy to install whatever I prefer instead (not Eog or GThumb by the way). Xfce's core components like the window manager and session manager do their jobs very well and never interfere with our work. I'm sorry it isn't cool or sexy enough for you, but Xfce is a great DE for anyone who actually uses their computer instead of tinkering with their desktop.

Pardon me, where did I talk about WORKSTATION? I talked about my crappy notebook with poor 2GiBs of RAM and superweak dualcore. I still use XFCE on pentium4 based mediastation/server and my primary workstation (combined with compiz; only taskbar is left from Xfce).

Sorry, I assumed that by "long term work" you meant actual work. My bad.

Holy sh!t, where is my opinion baseless? I have given a lot of argumentation why MATE>XFCE>Gnome3 for my usecase, and your ?objective truth? has no counter-arguments at all, like its coming from God. Excuse me, your Highness, for confusing your silhouette with that of a normal unreasonable troll (or blind fanboi), because both of you seems to output the same baseless accusations and insisting on their unquestionality. Please don't beat me, the linux user, to death with stones.

A bit overdramatic, don't you think? How is this relevant to my post at all? I just pointed out that your opinion is just opinion. Mine happens to be different (and is just as subjective).

GTK3 migration is on the horizon for Xfce as well, but for now it's not number one on the list. And why should it be? It won't magically make anything more productive or better software. Leafpad going GTK3 or not is a moot point, as it isn't even an Xfce project. Mousepad used to be a fork of Leafpad, but has since been rewritten from scratch.

[brosis]

I'm sorry it isn't cool or sexy enough for you, but Xfce is a great DE for anyone who actually uses their computer instead of tinkering with their desktop.

Try Gnome3, it no dissappoint in that aspect.

Sorry, I assumed that by "long term work" you meant actual work. My bad.

As long as I can SSH...

GTK3 migration is on the horizon for Xfce as well, but for now it's not number one on the list. And why should it be? It won't magically make anything more productive or better software. Leafpad going GTK3 or not is a moot point, as it isn't even an Xfce project. Mousepad used to be a fork of Leafpad, but has since been rewritten from scratch.

Because nearly all GTK programs migrated to GTK3 and XFCE stayed GTK2-only.
Mousepad is not a rewrite, it is an effort to add XFPrintUI instead of Gnome2 print dialog.
But XFPrintUI has been depricated itself since then, so there is no more point in Mousepad and Leafpad has fixed a few bugs that Mousepad was also fixing.
So the fork logically died. As of Leafpad, its dead too, the only active fork so far is L3afpad, which uses GTK3.

[tuubi]

Try Gnome3, it no dissappoint in that aspect.

I did, and it did. But this is a matter of taste and preference. I'm sure other people can be very productive with Gnome.

As long as I can SSH...

And that has little to do with your DE, so what's your point? Is it harder for you to SSH from Xfce? I for one happen to like Xfce's Terminal.

Because nearly all GTK programs migrated to GTK3 and XFCE stayed GTK2-only.
Mousepad is not a rewrite, it is an effort to add XFPrintUI instead of Gnome2 print dialog.
But XFPrintUI has been depricated itself since then, so there is no more point in Mousepad and Leafpad has fixed a few bugs that Mousepad was also fixing.
So the fork logically died. As of Leafpad, its dead too, the only active fork so far is L3afpad, which uses GTK3.

For all I know, L3afpad might very well be the only active fork of leafpad, as since version 0.3.0 mousepad is a complete rewrite, just like I said. Original announcement here. Seems to be the default text editor in Mint Xfce at least, don't know about other distros.

[brosis]

I did, and it did. But this is a matter of taste and preference. I'm sure other people can be very productive with Gnome.

However the weight-to-performance ratio is alarming.

And that has little to do with your DE, so what's your point? Is it harder for you to SSH from Xfce? I for one happen to like Xfce's Terminal.

Because in Gnome3 the my notebook would freeze while doing any work, due to it running out of memory thanks to two monsters - gnome-shell and firefox.

For all I know, L3afpad might very well be the only active fork of leafpad, as since version 0.3.0 mousepad is a complete rewrite, just like I said. Original announcement here. Seems to be the default text editor in Mint Xfce at least, don't know about other distros.

Gotcha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ApxnfCgzs
Looks nice!

[mgraesslin]

December Commits down to 2979. Lowest since 2003.

December Contributors down to 165. Lowest since 2006.

Honton, could you please just stop it, what you write doesn't make any sense at all. Yes the number might be down, but the question why is not what you looked at. December was the first month in the history of KDE without any development at all in kdelibs, because we prepared the split and it's now many many independent repositories. All commits since after the split are not yet at all included in your stats (yes I checked, ohloh doesn't know them yet).

Btw. where did you get the numbers? Ohloh lists more commits and more contributors.

[tomtomme]

source??

December Commits down to 2979. Lowest since 2003.

December Contributors down to 165. Lowest since 2006.

Honton, what is your source??
The numbers I see on kde-digest are even lower, see:

Commits 2046 by 157 developers

http://commit-digest.org/issues/2013-12-01/

But WTF - this is a RISE in the developer count compared to november. Shit (irony). Maybe KDE is not dying? See updated graph with kde-digest numbers (which differ from Oloh-numbers to still unknown reasons).