R.I.P. Steve Jobs

[deanjo]

NO but their involvement in Foxconn which is pretty much a mob operation that they fell into bed with when they fell into bed with intel gives ohhh a couple million people the RIGHT to completely hate Steve Jobs. Just like the foxconn employees in mexico had the right to burn down their plant. Oh sure they tried to punish them for it but they still had a greater wider permission. And as for china all the dork buddhist priests who kept saying it was a sin for chinese employees to commit suicide. They can have all the hatred they need too. I was simply stating that when people come to the defense of iconic facade figures with such nonsense as NOBODY deserves hatred it's simply hipocracy.

I think foxconn employees can relate to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gifEn61dZBc

OK first of all Foxconn != Apple. They are a supplier/manufacturer for Apple just like MANY MANY MANY other companies (Intel, ASRock, Amazon, Acer, Cisco, HP, Nokia, MSI, Dell, Nintendo, Sony Ericson, Visio just to name a few) . Secondly, the suicides are not even close to being limited or even proportionally allocated to employees assembling the Apple products. In fact Apple is the ONLY Foxconn customer that sets an ethics clause for maximum hours with out rest and wages with their contract with Foxconn and does regular inspection to make sure it is upheld on their product assembly lines. This started way before the "suicide" craze there (which btw is lower per capita then what it is for the general US population). The sad fact is that because of the culture there many of the suicides there were viewed as a way to provide for their families in their repressive society.

[XorEaxEax]

In the early 1980s, two Cambridge firms rose up and began offering the AI Lab hackers serious money. The first, Symbolics, was started by a former AI Lab administrator named Russell Noftsker. The other was Lisp Machine Inc. (LMI), founded by a hacker god named Richard Greenblatt. MIT struck a deal with both companies allowing them use of a programming language that the AI Lab had developed. But Symbolics eventually demanded that MIT not share its improvements to the code with LMI, and the university capitulated. Outraged by what he saw as a predatory move, Stallman clipped off Symbolics' communications link to the lab, then reportedly threatened to wrap himself in dynamite and walk into the company's offices (Stallman calls this absolutely untrue).

Wait, you offer this as some sort of proof? As it says here the two firms offering AI Lab money was no problem, the only problem Stallman had was that one of the firms demanded that improvements would NOT be shared with the other firm (despite them offering funding). How does this translate to Stallman not wanting anyone to make money off open source? Red Hat makes TONS of cash on foss, people have SOLD cd's with linux and the gnu toolchain on it for AGES. Where are Stallman's complaints on that if he doesn't want anyone to make money of foss? Heck, show me any statement from Stallman where he says he doesn't want people to make money out of foss.

You are the only one trying to 'spin' things. How much time do you spend on the web desperately trying to find things to discredit Stallman with? Why are you so obsessed with him as a person? Why not target his licence (which is obviously what you REALLY have a problem with) or his actual views on software instead of ad hominem attacks? Weak.

[XorEaxEax]

OK first of all Foxconn != Apple. They are a supplier/manufacturer for Apple just like MANY MANY MANY other companies (Intel, ASRock, Amazon, Acer, Cisco, HP, Nokia, MSI, Dell, Nintendo, Sony Ericson, Visio just to name a few) .

Have to agree with that, there's no reason to single out Apple as all tech companies are exploiting the poor working conditions found in asia etc in one way or another so that they can squeeze out the maximum profit for the shareholders while remaining competitive. It's not like this is a new thing, where do you think all the 'made in china' stuff which started to flood the western markets back in the days? Chinese factories where workers were operating under the same (if not worse) terrible conditions as today. As long as we consumers don't give a shit, neither will the companies who move their production there, and as history show we as consumers don't care. Hell, only reaction I've seen is that people in the western world starts to realize that there are no longer any jobs available in production, which in turn is why governments like the USA is now so eager to embrace and extend the concept of 'intellectual property' as that is quickly becoming their main export opportunity.

[V!NCENT]

All EU, USA and Australia Nokia phones are made in Finland, so I'm calling this bullshit.

[deanjo]

All EU, USA and Australia Nokia phones are made in Finland, so I'm calling this bullshit.

Well you are another person ignorant of the facts. Btw, Nokia doesn't only produce phones.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Apple-Nokia-Dell-HP-Investigating-Conditions-at-Foxconn-Site-635424/

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-and-Nokia-assemblyman-Foxconn-to-swap-a-number-of-workers-with-one-million-robots_id20795

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Foxconn-to-Manufacture-Nokia-039-s-Netbooks-109052.shtml

Just google Nokia and Foxconn and you will find all kinds of evidence.

[Hephasteus]

OK first of all Foxconn != Apple. They are a supplier/manufacturer for Apple just like MANY MANY MANY other companies (Intel, ASRock, Amazon, Acer, Cisco, HP, Nokia, MSI, Dell, Nintendo, Sony Ericson, Visio just to name a few) . Secondly, the suicides are not even close to being limited or even proportionally allocated to employees assembling the Apple products. In fact Apple is the ONLY Foxconn customer that sets an ethics clause for maximum hours with out rest and wages with their contract with Foxconn and does regular inspection to make sure it is upheld on their product assembly lines. This started way before the "suicide" craze there (which btw is lower per capita then what it is for the general US population). The sad fact is that because of the culture there many of the suicides there were viewed as a way to provide for their families in their repressive society.

No. You don't get it deanjo. Foxconn is not apple and it's not Intel. It's a global company that finds as many people as it can to exploit. It just has a rich market in china who has millons of migrant workers and a rich market in mexico who has government gangs setting up nafta that drive them off the farm with cheap food prices and then exploits them in factory work. It's thug business. And it's not only ignored by intel and apple. It's actually encouraged. The problem is the thug business is so brutal and immoral that they screw them over by selling extra plastic cases to knock off makers etc. The price of dealing with this type of set up is you walk into best buy and you pay for a ipad and you get it home and find out it's a knockoff.
Apple and Intel are not interested in balance or fairness. They are interested in arbitrage. Apple literally and I mean literally treats their customers likes kings and queens. However everything is zero sum so for that they have to treat workers like dirt.

Apple can set an ethics clause all they want. Chinese government even sets an ethics clause for foxconn. They just don't frikking enforce it. But it's there to make you think that's what they want. There was never a foxconn suicide craze. There was a foxconn suicide rebellion meaning I'm sick of your crap. They are caught in a fight. Any fight you are involved with you have 2 responses. Attack or run. Fight or Flight. Suicide is simply flight with a nasty statement. I'd rather be dead than work for you. It's the same thing with people setting themselves on fire. Whether it's a egyptian guy selling fruit to provide for his family or a greek guy going to the bank asking for an extension on a loan to save his business and walking out of the bank and setting himself on fire, it's all the same thing. The difference is only in the actual social mechanics of how both provide for family. Setting yourself on fire is universal language for you have lost all trust.

[yogi_berra]

You are the only one trying to 'spin' things. How much time do you spend on the web desperately trying to find things to discredit Stallman with? Why are you so obsessed with him as a person? Why not target his licence (which is obviously what you REALLY have a problem with) or his actual views on software instead of ad hominem attacks?

For someone that doesn't subscribe to Stallman's view you spend a lot of time defending that view and engaging in character attacks against people that question it or mock it. Could it be that you are the one obsessed with the man?

Weak.

Yes, your trolling is pretty weak.

[deanjo]

No. You don't get it deanjo. Foxconn is not apple and it's not Intel. It's a global company that finds as many people as it can to exploit. It just has a rich market in china who has millons of migrant workers and a rich market in mexico who has government gangs setting up nafta that drive them off the farm with cheap food prices and then exploits them in factory work. It's thug business. And it's not only ignored by intel and apple. It's actually encouraged. The problem is the thug business is so brutal and immoral that they screw them over by selling extra plastic cases to knock off makers etc. The price of dealing with this type of set up is you walk into best buy and you pay for a ipad and you get it home and find out it's a knockoff.
Apple and Intel are not interested in balance or fairness. They are interested in arbitrage. Apple literally and I mean literally treats their customers likes kings and queens. However everything is zero sum so for that they have to treat workers like dirt.

No you don't get it. Apple does not treat their workers like dirt. If anything they try to make their manufacturers employees life better. If you are going to blame apple why don't you blame the real people that create the issue, the consuming public. Apple (and many others) just happens to create devices that are coveted by the public.

Apple can set an ethics clause all they want. Chinese government even sets an ethics clause for foxconn. They just don't frikking enforce it.

Apple enforces all the stipulations that it sets out. You seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

But it's there to make you think that's what they want. There was never a foxconn suicide craze. There was a foxconn suicide rebellion meaning I'm sick of your crap. They are caught in a fight. Any fight you are involved with you have 2 responses. Attack or run. Fight or Flight. Suicide is simply flight with a nasty statement. I'd rather be dead than work for you. It's the same thing with people setting themselves on fire. Whether it's a egyptian guy selling fruit to provide for his family or a greek guy going to the bank asking for an extension on a loan to save his business and walking out of the bank and setting himself on fire, it's all the same thing. The difference is only in the actual social mechanics of how both provide for family. Setting yourself on fire is universal language for you have lost all trust.

Did you notice since Foxconn stopped paying out compensation to the families of Foxconn suicides that all of a sudden they dropped off drastically? Did you know that every employee of Foxconn is free to leave at anytime? Do you know why life insurance agencies don't payout policies on suicides anymore? Insurance agencies in the 30's stopped paying out compensation to families of suicide victims in the 1930s in response to the exact reason why Foxconn was experiencing them, because too many people were using suicide as a way to make sure that their families were taken care of. But hey if you feel so strongly about items like these maybe you should abandon the platform you are responding on since it was developed by a company who truly has a dark past and profited from the suffering of others.

[RealNC]

Still waiting for the "R.I.P. Dennis Ritchie" thread, a man who was an actual scientist rather than just a businessman trying to get rich through shady practices.

[deanjo]

Still waiting for the "R.I.P. Dennis Ritchie" thread, a man who was an actual scientist rather than just a businessman trying to get rich through shady practices.

You mean this one?

http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?62579-Another-pioneer-passes-away