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Germany export 4MWh E-Energy although 8 Nuclear-Power-Stations turned off

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  • #51
    P.S. all THW fighters work for ZERO money. means they are volunteer for Honor.
    Last edited by Qaridarium; 09-30-2011, 10:21 PM.
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    • #52
      ubs sorry edit fail..
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      • #53
        Originally posted by Panix View Post
        Problem is the backup solutions are still poor and inefficient.
        a documentary about the second German backup:

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        • #54
          Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
          http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/35/35575/1.html

          germany turn of 8 nuclear power plants and export 4MWh el energy
          it shows the lies about the nuclear power in germany.
          WTF? 4MW*h of energy is just about enough to boil one bathtub of water. I.e. it's a tiny amount. Probably, they meant 4MWt of energy which is also a tiny amount - about 4% of output of a moderate-sized coal/nuclear powerplant. Even 4GWt is not much for a big country.

          And yeah, 'green' movement in Germany should be kicked in face. Hard. With boots. Repeatedly. Because they are going to cause increase in CO2 emissions, without any benefits.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
            there is at the moment no need for that, we can use gas-plants if we really cant push up the alternative energies fast enough, its more clean than coal. And its a myth that atom energie does not produce any co2.
            No, gas is not more cleaner than coal. Methane has much higher greenhouse potential than CO2 so gas leaks (estimated at about 2-7%) along the route from gas wells to consumer actually make gas WORSE than coal with respect to global warming.

            At most, gas is just marginally better.

            And its not proven (why is that not teached in school if its proven) that co2- is bad for the earth, its just unlogical, because plants better groth.
            That's also incorrect. Availability of CO2 is not the rate-limiting factor for plant growth (for most plants). In general, CO2 increase won't cause significant increase in plant biomass growth.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
              WTF? 4MW*h of energy is just about enough to boil one bathtub of water. I.e. it's a tiny amount. Probably, they meant 4MWt of energy which is also a tiny amount - about 4% of output of a moderate-sized coal/nuclear powerplant. Even 4GWt is not much for a big country.

              And yeah, 'green' movement in Germany should be kicked in face. Hard. With boots. Repeatedly. Because they are going to cause increase in CO2 emissions, without any benefits.
              you are right i fail here its 4GWh (Giga-Watt-hora) or for english people : 4GWt Giga-Watt-Time

              for 4GWh you can shutdown another round of 2-4 nuclear reactors.

              right now germany do have 150GW of power plants.
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              • #57
                Originally posted by Cyberax View Post
                No, gas is not more cleaner than coal. Methane has much higher greenhouse potential than CO2 so gas leaks (estimated at about 2-7%) along the route from gas wells to consumer actually make gas WORSE than coal with respect to global warming.
                At most, gas is just marginally better.
                That's also incorrect. Availability of CO2 is not the rate-limiting factor for plant growth (for most plants). In general, CO2 increase won't cause significant increase in plant biomass growth.
                germany do not plan a backup based on gas.

                germany plan a smart grid backup based on HG?(highvoltage-direct current-cable) in an European grid with Sweden and Norway to use there water power plants in the fords as backup.

                one of this cable is: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Cable

                and they plan the biggest ever build to Norway http://www.norger.biz/norger/

                the first expansion stage will have 1,4GigaWatt and 11 TWh
                Last edited by Qaridarium; 09-30-2011, 11:32 PM.
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                • #58
                  Coal is 'worse' than Natural Gas. But, Nuclear is 'better' than either (in terms of CO2).

                  There's a few sources that display the results but the wiki (which seems to have put together the chart from it) show thus:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._gas_emissions

                  What the wiki fails to insinuate which should also be presented is that the energy produced/delivered in terms of efficiency is greater with the nuclear energy so despite the low numbers of CO2 from the renewable, the energy output in terms of efficiency is much lower. Especially with wind.

                  So, again, examined in terms of either CO2 or efficiency, the renewables are not that great percentage wise per output and the efficiency is even worse. Just an observation.

                  But, coal CO2 emissions is worst. From this presentation, that's what it appears to me.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    you are right i fail here its 4GWh (Giga-Watt-hora) or for english people : 4GWt Giga-Watt-Time
                    Please, learn physics.

                    Watt-hours are units of _energy_ and 4GWh is a small amount - about the energy in 10 tons of gasoline. If you want to talk about German export in terms of total energy exported, then the units you want to use are TWh (Terra-Watt hours).

                    Watts are units of _power_ and so the correct number is 4GW (which is the same in all languages, since it's standard a SI unit) which means 4 Giga-Watts.

                    for 4GWh you can shutdown another round of 2-4 nuclear reactors.
                    right now germany do have 150GW of power plants.
                    And soon will need more as energy consumption is going to rise with introduction of electric automobiles and transition from coal to electricity.

                    Besides, 4GWt out of 150GWt is marginal. It's well within normal variations in power generation (because of plant maintenance, variability of wind/solar power, etc).

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Panix View Post
                      Coal is 'worse' than Natural Gas. But, Nuclear is 'better' than either (in terms of CO2).
                      There's a few sources that display the results but the wiki (which seems to have put together the chart from it) show thus:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._gas_emissions
                      What the wiki fails to insinuate which should also be presented is that the energy produced/delivered in terms of efficiency is greater with the nuclear energy so despite the low numbers of CO2 from the renewable, the energy output in terms of efficiency is much lower. Especially with wind.
                      So, again, examined in terms of either CO2 or efficiency, the renewables are not that great percentage wise per output and the efficiency is even worse. Just an observation.
                      But, coal CO2 emissions is worst. From this presentation, that's what it appears to me.
                      i do not understand the coal vs gas vs nuclear FUD.

                      Germany try to kick of all of them. they start the biggest investment world wide in green energy and smart grid and new cables.

                      germany will spend 25 000 000 000? only in cables.
                      germany will spend 400 000 000 000? only in new power plants.

                      and again the germans think they can beat coal and gas and nuclear in a single round!
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