Linux and Mac are screwed

[energyman]

wrong. You only need to hit a website with a malicious flash file.

There are enough remote exploits for mac.

And that guy is not an idiot but a professional Mac-User. Somebody who has to use it every day for a living.

Calling others idiots while posting crap does not make you look any smarter.

[Panix]

There's a lot of Mac fans in this forum, right? The new mod is one, correct?

I know my opinion probably won't be popular or liked at all but I don't understand the fanfare for Macs. Granted, the laptops/hardware is considered top quality and it should be for what they charge you. But, for all intensive purposes, this stuff is even more proprietary than WINDOWS and this includes the hardware that has Windows 7 installed on.

A 'mini-HDMI' port?!? WHAT?!? Also, at least there is freeware and shareware for Windows. Apple/Mac or should I say MAC OS has the advantage of Unix but this is ultimately closed source. Where there are ways around using MS Windows at full prices and associated software, there is less options when using the MAC OS. It's just the way it is.

Then Apple overprices everything as MS does but there seems to be less criticism for Apple from Linux users. That makes little sense to me.

Anyway, maybe I shouldn't offer my two cents but isn't there anyone with even somewhat of a similar perspective. Possibly, there is some info I missed or a perspective that might challenge my suggestions but anyway, that's just food for thought, perhaps?

I'll shut up now... zzzzzzzzipppppppp....

[code933k]

A Linux/Android rip off

So you see a Linux/Android interface rip off (Windows is continuing a tradition here) whose interface happens to be full of color (which is rather unpleasant for many of us). Then you conclude the world is gonna end... Even yet, you think things work OK internally because you see something pleasant to you. Good luck with that.

I think your overtly propagandistic post (starting with the title) should be removed from Phoronix. It is absurd, misleading and doesn't add any information for us users.

[devius]

I think your overtly propagandistic post (starting with the title) should be removed from Phoronix. It is absurd, misleading and doesn't add any information for us users.

Nah... there is freedom of speech here fortunately. Anyone can say what they want about the software they like/dislike.

@Panix Well, Apple does overcharge for hardware but for software they actually offer very good value. The latest Mac OS 10.6.whatever DVD costs just 30? and it has full functionality, unlike windows with all the crippled versions to choose from. This is for the OS, I'm not talking about other programs or third party vendors. Also, the fact that you get a proper *nix console makes any linux user feel right at home. But yes, the closedness does suck, although they do contribute to open-source projects like CUPS and Xorg.

[johnc]

There's a lot of Mac fans in this forum, right? The new mod is one, correct?

I know my opinion probably won't be popular or liked at all but I don't understand the fanfare for Macs. Granted, the laptops/hardware is considered top quality and it should be for what they charge you. But, for all intensive purposes, this stuff is even more proprietary than WINDOWS and this includes the hardware that has Windows 7 installed on.

A 'mini-HDMI' port?!? WHAT?!? Also, at least there is freeware and shareware for Windows. Apple/Mac or should I say MAC OS has the advantage of Unix but this is ultimately closed source. Where there are ways around using MS Windows at full prices and associated software, there is less options when using the MAC OS. It's just the way it is.

Then Apple overprices everything as MS does but there seems to be less criticism for Apple from Linux users. That makes little sense to me.

Anyway, maybe I shouldn't offer my two cents but isn't there anyone with even somewhat of a similar perspective. Possibly, there is some info I missed or a perspective that might challenge my suggestions but anyway, that's just food for thought, perhaps?

I'll shut up now... zzzzzzzzipppppppp....

Those are good points, but 1) most people just don't care anything about open source or standards or anything like that. It's all about getting a device that accomplishes whatever it is they're looking for. Heck, I love linux but even I prefer things that work over things that are hacked together with limited functionality (hence proprietary video drivers for me). I would even pay for something that's good than take a turd that's free. Not saying linux is a turd, I'm just making up an example. When I purchased my Android phone, the open / closed state of the source code had absolutely no impact on me... and I'd argue that's how it is with most people.

2) Being pricey is part of Apple's strategy of marketing to the trendy / yuppie crowd that love to buy expensive things to make them feel good about themselves. Obviously not all Apple consumers live in this mindset, but there is a pretty decent segment of the population which bases its purchases on the idea of being a member of an "elite" group. Hence companies like BMW, Mercedes, Starbucks, etc. charge ridiculous prices for what amounts to, quite frankly, mediocre products. People don't buy those things at those prices because they're getting bang for their buck -- they buy them to show off, essentially.

3) What's wrong with mini-HDMI? My GTX 570 came with a mini-HDMI port.

So you see a Linux/Android interface rip off (Windows is continuing a tradition here) whose interface happens to be full of color (which is rather unpleasant for many of us). Then you conclude the world is gonna end... Even yet, you think things work OK internally because you see something pleasant to you. Good luck with that.

I'd love to see some of the big players in linux hire out some quality graphics artists to whip some polish on the user interfaces. It's not that they're exceptionally bad, per se... but they're just... not good enough. The truth is, we're attracted to things that look good. And if something is really good under the hood, you owe it to the product to whip some polish onto it so that it looks as good as it performs. You could have the best performing car on the lot, but if the paint job is just "meh" and not even polished up, you're not going to get many looks or interest.

I'm a technical person, and I don't care what anybody says but this is no place for technical people. You have to have good, top-notch graphics artists making the glitz. Artsy-fartsy people that know colors, gradients, highlights and all that good stuff. (This would be an appropriate time to mention that Unity is absolutely awful-looking.)

My Win7 experience is just kinda "meh" (coming from Win2k)... It's quirky. It's somewhat easy to use when you figure out how to get around. I don't see anything innovative. Aero is nice, but... not innovative. (But the Windows users who haven't been exposed to anything else see Aero and say, "Wow! Microsoft is so great! Look at what they came up with!") But I will say... Win7 is polished up real nice, so it at least looks attractive... and inspires confidence. In fact I would even say that, for those who don't know any better, it almost gives the impression that they're dealing with a professional product.

tl;dr: Put a Win7 desktop on a 27" monitor beside an Ubuntu 11.04 desktop on a 27" monitor and I'd know which display would be more apt to make me vomit.

[ninez]

There's a lot of Mac fans in this forum, right? The new mod is one, correct?

I know my opinion probably won't be popular or liked at all but I don't understand the fanfare for Macs. Granted, the laptops/hardware is considered top quality and it should be for what they charge you. But, for all intensive purposes, this stuff is even more proprietary than WINDOWS and this includes the hardware that has Windows 7 installed on.

Apple is a hardware/software vender, Microsoft (for the most part) is a software company - there businesses are very different - but both are Propreitary! Apple always has preferred to do both, for integration reasons, etc... If you look only from the software side, a big chunk of MacOS X is actually open-source, that being Darwin, the core of MacOSX. it's the stuff on top of Darwin that is proprietary, CoreAudio, Quartz, Carbon, etc. Windows on the other hand is 100% propreitary, and not only that Microsoft likes to try to bastardize standards, or not embrace cross-platform standards and write there own - to get people stuck on MS products. Bill Gates also really was the one who pushed for the proprietary software model... sure windows runs on dell, HP, etc - but these companies ship windows and have contracts with Microsoft, so that really doesn't make windows any less proprietary does it?? Apple also does maintain and contribute a lot of code to the open-source world too... that affects us Linux users. Apple also contributes code here and there to BSD.

A 'mini-HDMI' port?!? WHAT?!? Also, at least there is freeware and shareware for Windows. Apple/Mac or should I say MAC OS has the advantage of Unix but this is ultimately closed source. Where there are ways around using MS Windows at full prices and associated software, there is less options when using the MAC OS. It's just the way it is.

mini-hdmi, thunderbolt, etc - apple works both sides, and tunes there proudcts how they want. it must be fun to work at apple on the design side...and AFAIK - there is lots of shareware and freeware for Mac too, there just happens to be more for MS ,which is really just common-sense, if you do the math. ie: there are way more windows users.

but another thing to consider, is you can use Macports on a Mac (better known as ports in BSD, and gentoo has portage - which is based on ports)...what this means is that on a Mac, you have access to much of the software you do in Gnu/linux or BSDs...

OSX is cheaper than Windows most times, even often when you get a deal from Microsoft.

as far as less options, one has to consider 'quality over quantity'. if software is really good and there is a demand(4 mac), it'll end up on Mac. there is also a lot of good Mac software than isn't available for Windows too - it can work both ways.

Then Apple overprices everything as MS does but there seems to be less criticism for Apple from Linux users. That makes little sense to me.D

maybe (some) Linux users prefer Mac because it shares lineage with Gnu/Linux and BSD. ie: it's a *nix system, the OS uses GCC, all of it's development tools come with the MacOS, ie: not having to pay microsoft or third parties lots of money for development tools, etc. MacOS X interface is also much more like a Linux Desktop than Windows is...I know a lot of developers, who own macbooks, Mac is a decent platform to develop on (whether it's for mac, Windows or Linux.. VMware Fusion kicks ass, and you can also dual-boot or whatever too.

[frantaylor]

Hilarious, arguing over hardware price

T the laptops/hardware is considered top quality and it should be for what they charge you.

The fixation on purchase price is borderline psychotic.

How many years do you own a computer? How much time will you spend in front of it? How much are those hours worth? How does that compare to the price of the computer? Why oh why are you so freaked out over such trifles?

I keep my computers for 6+ years, my last desktop system I kept running for 8 years. By the time I am done with them I don't even remember how much they cost and I don't even care. What matters is that I get years of useful life from them.

I look at how much UNPRODUCTIVE time my computers force upon me. When I have to run software upgrades or clean out registry entries or defragment hard disks I count that as unproductive time. When it is all said and done my Windows systems are 10% of my computers and 60% of my unproductive time. If I had my druthers I would just reformat my Windows systems as Linux but I need them for particular applications.

[ninez]

2) Being pricey is part of Apple's strategy of marketing to the trendy / yuppie crowd that love to buy expensive things to make them feel good about themselves. Obviously not all Apple consumers live in this mindset, but there is a pretty decent segment of the population which bases its purchases on the idea of being a member of an "elite" group. Hence companies like BMW, Mercedes, Starbucks, etc. charge ridiculous prices for what amounts to, quite frankly, mediocre products. People don't buy those things at those prices because they're getting bang for their buck -- they buy them to show off, essentially..

that may be your opinion, but certainly not fact. I couldn't afford a BMW (nor would i want one) but i can stretch a little for a Mac.i hate Starbucks, and go to Tim hortons (I'm in Canada) because it is cheaper and better... i also didn't buy Mac to make myself 'feel better' - i bought mine because i prefer MacOS over windows, also for proaudio/graphic design and to run apps not available for Linux, like CS5.. and there are certain things Mac's do better than Windows, firewire is an example. Coreaudio is another example - it's a much more solid audio api than Windows has, and much more refined and stable than Linux standards. ie: we have Alsa, Jackd, PA, etc - it's very fragmented. where as Coreaudio is one solid sound API that does it all. (and before you comment on the differences between linux audio APIs, don't obther, i know the differences, i use linux for proaudio too).

People also buy Mac, because they have style, are elegant and tend to work really well. where as Windows can often be a mess (linux too, especially if you aren't tech-savvy). i know countless people who aren't very tech-savvy who got sick of dealing with Windows problems and bought Mac - they never looked back - most of these people aren't, are not concerned with being in some 'elite' group and aren't rich/wealthy - other than by 3rd world standards...

i think you are either very imaginative, or possibly have some mental illness, which symptoms might include, paranoid delusions.

[ninez]

The fixation on purchase price is borderline psychotic.

How many years do you own a computer? How much time will you spend in front of it? How much are those hours worth? How does that compare to the price of the computer? Why oh why are you so freaked out over such trifles?

I keep my computers for 6+ years, my last desktop system I kept running for 8 years. By the time I am done with them I don't even remember how much they cost and I don't even care. What matters is that I get years of useful life from them.

I look at how much UNPRODUCTIVE time my computers force upon me. When I have to run software upgrades or clean out registry entries or defragment hard disks I count that as unproductive time. When it is all said and done my Windows systems are 10% of my computers and 60% of my unproductive time. If I had my druthers I would just reformat my Windows systems as Linux but I need them for particular applications.

i totally agree. except my windows hassles are 8-12 hours a day, 5 days a week @ work...lol and since i own a Mac, i can use it for the apps not available for Linux, (without the hassles of maintence, viruses, etc in windows, Mac is much more stable and reliable)...

[johnc]

that may be your opinion, but certainly not fact. I couldn't afford a BMW (nor would i want one) but i can stretch a little for a Mac.i hate Starbucks, and go to Tim hortons (I'm in Canada) because it is cheaper and better... i also didn't buy Mac to make myself 'feel better' - i bought mine because i prefer MacOS over windows, also for proaudio/graphic design and to run apps not available for Linux, like CS5.. and there are certain things Mac's do better than Windows, firewire is an example. Coreaudio is another example - it's a much more solid audio api than Windows has, and much more refined and stable than Linux standards. ie: we have Alsa, Jackd, PA, etc - it's very fragmented. where as Coreaudio is one solid sound API that does it all. (and before you comment on the differences between linux audio APIs, don't obther, i know the differences, i use linux for proaudio too).

People also buy Mac, because they have style, are elegant and tend to work really well. where as Windows can often be a mess (linux too, especially if you aren't tech-savvy). i know countless people who aren't very tech-savvy who got sick of dealing with Windows problems and bought Mac - they never looked back - most of these people aren't, are not concerned with being in some 'elite' group and aren't rich/wealthy - other than by 3rd world standards...

i think you are either very imaginative, or possibly have some mental illness, which symptoms might include, paranoid delusions.

Maybe you missed the first half of my second sentence that you quoted. Your example is not typical.