Upset that my school is now a "success story" for migration to Windows

[RealNC]

I have a brand new success story. Someone wanted to try out Linux with KDE. So he installed Kubuntu 10.10.

And the phail starts.

He installed HoN, but it doesn't run. No error message, no nothing. He phoned me to help him. I know how to use a terminal though. Indeed, starting HoN from the K menu doesn't work. Of course, linux distros in their infinite wisdom do not show anything when a program doesn't start; no error message, no error dialog, nothing. They just leave the user out in the cold, wondering what the hell is happening.

So I started it from a terminal:

warning: The VAD has been replaced by a hack pending a complete rewrite
X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
Major opcode of failed request: 155 (RANDR)
Minor opcode of failed request: 7 (RRSetScreenSize)
Value in failed request: 0xa00
Serial number of failed request: 81
Current serial number in output stream: 82

Kubuntu installed fglrx for his HD4850 just fine, mind you.

Then, the other thing that user needs: Mumble. But the push-to-talk key in the Linux version interferes with everything else. In windows it has a setting to "ignore" it. No such setting in Linux.

Oh, how leet. Yes, Linux. It's ready for the masses.

Excuse me while I go outside and laugh for a bit. Needless to say, I told him to go back to Windows 7. Which he did. Another happy user who will spread the word about Linux and how well it works.

Yes, I'm trolling, but I am right.

[snuwoods]

Linux is ready for the masses that don't use mumble or play games like HoN.

[RealNC]

Or use MSN video chat (aMSN tells him that video is disabled due to M$ protocol blablahs), or want to use a microphone (I needed to open a terminal and run alsamixer because there's no way unmute the mic in Kubuntu from any of the GUI mixers).

[PsynoKhi0]

Having your box break after every Ubuntu kernel security update (happens every time) because fglrx won't work anymore [...]

Uh? That's way beyond illiteracy...

Also completely irrelevant in the context of an educational environment. If the admin lets students poke around kernel upgrades, no amount of OS bells and whistles can save that poor university...

Someone wanted to try out Linux with KDE. So he installed Kubuntu 10.10.

(Warning for gratuitous bashing) The "phail" started right there

On a more serious note... Looks like the screen hasn't been properly configured for HoN, but yeah, whatever, has to be fglrx right?

No effort what so ever... And still wondering why people "prefer" going back to windows... Heh.

[mugginz]

Oh, how leet. Yes, Linux. It's ready for the masses.

Excuse me while I go outside and laugh for a bit. Needless to say, I told him to go back to Windows 7. Which he did. Another happy user who will spread the word about Linux and how well it works.

Yes, I'm trolling, but I am right.

Yes you are trolling and no you are not right.

Tell me RealNC, why should I rule out Linux as an option for a user who doesn't use and has no need for MSN or Windows games?

When someone brings up that they want to run games, Windows is my automatic recommendation but not everyone does their gaming on a PC and not everyone plays video games for that matter.

Where Linux will fulfil a users requirements and provide a greatly reduced attack surface with respect to malware, why should I not present it as one of a range of options where it's appropriate?

[Ex-Cyber]

When someone brings up that they want to run games, Windows is my automatic recommendation but not everyone does their gaming on a PC and not everyone plays video games for that matter.

Also, a lot of people who do play games on their PCs play Flash games rather than Windows games (with their Intel GPUs, natch).

[RealNC]

Yes you are trolling and no you are not right.

Tell me RealNC, why should I rule out Linux as an option for a user who doesn't use and has no need for MSN or Windows games?

When someone brings up that they want to run games, Windows is my automatic recommendation but not everyone does their gaming on a PC and not everyone plays video games for that matter.

Where Linux will fulfil a users requirements and provide a greatly reduced attack surface with respect to malware, why should I not present it as one of a range of options where it's appropriate?

You should. I do too. My troll-post (well, at least I think its humorous) was the typical ending of me suggesting Linux to people though. Only very few people decided to keep it in the end.

Granted, it's off-topic in this specific scenario which is about a school's computers. Threads like this turn more generic anyway as time passes though.

Bottom line is that you cannot know in advance what people intent to do with their computer. Also, when they encounter the first problem, they don't know what to do. When they google it up, they are presented with cryptic terminal commands. And IMO, this is one of the things that turn people away from Linux: do not ever require users to use a terminal.

Not even Ubuntu does this correctly. They spend so much time hacking and patching the upstream sources beyond recognition without any real need to do so, but won't change them in some more useful way like having GUI error messages. HoN was an example. Why does nothing happen when they click its icon to start the game? Why doesn't the error message appear in some "couldn't run executable" GUI dialog? Why can't users configure their microphone without the need to run the terminal and use alsamixer? The user I'm talking about was smart enough to use google. And there he found that he can install a mixer called "tkmixer", which he did. But when he tried to launch it from the K menu, it also wouldn't start. And also no error message. (When I went to his home and launched it from the terminal, it said "can't open mixer device", which I don't know how to fix anyway, but the user wasn't even presented with that error message in the GUI).

This is not user-friendly. These are simple things that should be provided in every OS. This is one of the reasons that make me think that Linux is not suitable for "normal" people who aren't interested in an education about Unix terminals.

[RealNC]

Er, that was supposed to be "You shouldn't. I do too." as in you should *not* rule out Linux.

Damn edit time limit.

[devius]

I have a brand new success story. Someone wanted to try out Linux with KDE. So he installed Kubuntu 10.10.

That's the problem right there. Everybody assumes ubuntu is the most compatible and stable linux distro out there simply because it's the most popular. I don't believe it is any of those, except the popular part.

Most of the problems I had in linux were with ubuntu. I also see and hear lots of comments like that one, e.g.

"I'm a windows users and tried ubuntu but [something, usually just one thing] didn't work (out of the box) so I removed it and went back to windows"

. The thing is most people forget that sometimes it's also necessary to do some hacking and researching to get things going in windows. It also takes time and effort to solve problems. Sometimes a driver update also breaks something. Inatalling a program screws up something else. However while these people somehow don't mind doing what it takes to solve problems with windows, when it comes to linux it better well work straight away or else...

[RealNC]

That's the problem right there. Everybody assumes ubuntu is the most compatible and stable linux distro out there simply because it's the most popular. I don't believe it is any of those, except the popular part.

Most of the problems I had in linux were with ubuntu. I also see and hear lots of comments like that one, e.g. . The thing is most people forget that sometimes it's also necessary to do some hacking and researching to get things going in windows. It also takes time and effort to solve problems. Sometimes a driver update also breaks something. Inatalling a program screws up something else. However while these people somehow don't mind doing what it takes to solve problems with windows, when it comes to linux it better well work straight away or else...

The problem is that in Windows all is solved in the GUI. In Linux you get to use a terminal. Everyone knows how to use a GUI (you simply use the mouse, the buttons are labeled, etc.) But almost no one knows how to use a terminal. Nothing is explained there. That's just not OK for an OS that advertises itself as user-friendly (which Ubuntu *does* advertise.)

Recommending Ubuntu to users is the only realistic thing I can think of though. It's the most widely supported distro. When users want to install something that's not on the repos, at least there's hope an Ubuntu-compatible package is provided. Or else they would be battling with missing libraries and such.

I remember some chart somewhere that showed the percentage of returned laptops that came with Linux as default compared to those that came with Windows. Not sure where I saw it, but it was not pretty. People were practically running away from Linux after their experiences with it.

I still hope Ubuntu will get its act right and provide "user friendliness" in things that are actually required to be user friendly, rather than their idiotic custom context menus and window decorations :-/