KDE 3.5 rant

[kelly7898]

ughh ill try to play the cow then.

listing features in programs = facts
listing opinions = well, opinions

the first post is an opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own. I beg you to disagree.

First post, first asks peoples opinions according to KDE. at least 2 things can come of this.

1. Prove that he is an old fart, to himself.
2. Prove that KDE 4 is garbage.

Unfortunately because they are strictly opinions they prove nothing. He ends the first post by stating he wants his old desktop back. I made it quite clear to go with what he is happy with.

Kraftman, you are asking him for examples as to why it is bad. This helps provide an argument for the overall debate, which is good. But in the context of this 1 user it is best to say go with his gut because regardless of what is "better", kde 3 is best for him. After all, isnt what is better simply an opinion on its own?

I hope i understood correctly and cleaned that up.

I also think so.

[Apopas]

So developers shouldn't focus on efficient RAM usage because there is a lot of it in new machines? Sounds like a bad excuse for shitty coding practices to me.

Indeed, that was not what molecule-eye said.

[molecule-eye]

So developers shouldn't focus on efficient RAM usage because there is a lot of it in new machines? Sounds like a bad excuse for shitty coding practices to me.

Was that the conclusion you drew from what I said? That's pretty sad.

I think things like aggressive caching, enhanced plasma desktop functionality, etc. are all good things even though they require more base memory usage.

[yogi_berra]

This is just silly. Increasingly, computer are being outfitted with more memory and certain modern desktop environments should exploit that. If you want a lightweight environment go for one that is intended to be so. KDE 4.x doesn't happen to be one of those and I don't see any reason for that to change.

So developers shouldn't focus on efficient RAM usage because there is a lot of it in new machines? Sounds like a bad excuse for shitty coding practices to me.

[molecule-eye]

Well, for me KDE 4.x Sucks on Memory usage. It's painful, really.
1xxMB on KDE 3.5.10 Debian Lenny,
4xxMB on KDE 4.3.2 Kubuntu.

Ouch.
I wish then can lower KDE 4.x memory requirement.

Btw,
I love both version. But in Visual, I prefer KDE 3.5

This is just silly. Increasingly, computer are being outfitted with more memory and certain modern desktop environments should exploit that. If you want a lightweight environment go for one that is intended to be so. KDE 4.x doesn't happen to be one of those and I don't see any reason for that to change.

[Apopas]

I don't know what you are trying to imply. One thing is not related to the other, and I wasn't counting Okular in my list of KDE 4 annoyances since I don't use it (god forbid). In any case, I guess you haven't checked the Okular bugs in a while, otherwise you wouldn't be speaking like that:

Lotsa Okular crashes in the last 20 days

I'm not saying there aren't people who have problems with Okular or that it's bug free. I'm just saying that you had trouble even making it run at first place, so probably something was terribly wrong with your system or your KDE4 settings in general. Maybe it's indeed driver problems as kraftman mentioned or your distro hasn't implement KDE4 very well. Kubuntu for example used to be very buggy. Things like that happen, but it's not the rule.

[kraftman]

Perhaps their way of doing things allows their apps to work better in composited desktop (a wild guess), but it doesn't perform as well as good old KDE 3.

I think it's because some of the Linux drivers provide better acceleration for QT3 then for QT4 like nVidia driver some time ago (or still). If you try Kile in Windows it should be very smooth and you probably won't notice a difference in performance between QT3 and QT4 applications there, because of good graphic drivers. When QT4 will be as good accelerated in your Linux driver as QT3 is, you also shouldn't notice a difference. However, I'm not sure it's like I described.

[yotambien]

Those are probably graphic drivers problems. I remember when using nVidia binary blobs scrolling in QT3 applications was perfectly smooth and then there were serious problems with QT4. I don't know too much about graphic drivers, but maybe when Gallium3D will come it will be as smooth as it should. Btw. I'm using Radeon Open Source driver and scrolling in Konqueror and resizing windows (even when using compositions) is very smooth. However, I didn't tried Kile.

I'm pretty sure that's more or less the case. Probably KDE4/QT4 applications are using some clever stuff that work well if you have the necessary ingredients for it. And this is precisely why I think they put aesthetics over other considerations. Perhaps their way of doing things allows their apps to work better in composited desktop (a wild guess), but it doesn't perform as well as good old KDE 3.

[kraftman]

I'm terribly curious now; what does "Keyboard shortcuts" do?

I don't use any DE, only applications. My problem with KDE4 apps is that I find them slower than their 3.5 counterparts. Kile, for instance, lags in my machine when I select text and scroll down (or up). Come on, it's just regular text, not a freaking pdf, it should be lightning fast.

Those are probably graphic drivers problems. I remember when using nVidia binary blobs scrolling in QT3 applications was perfectly smooth and then there were serious problems with QT4. I don't know too much about graphic drivers, but maybe when Gallium3D will come it will be as smooth as it should. Btw. I'm using Radeon Open Source driver and scrolling in Konqueror and resizing windows (even when using compositions) is very smooth. However, I didn't tried Kile.

[yotambien]

I don't know what you are trying to imply. One thing is not related to the other, and I wasn't counting Okular in my list of KDE 4 annoyances since I don't use it (god forbid). In any case, I guess you haven't checked the Okular bugs in a while, otherwise you wouldn't be speaking like that:

Lotsa Okular crashes in the last 20 days