Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard
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Linux CoC Announces Decision Following Recent Bcachefs Drama
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This is two faced to the extreme.
Linux has been a much bigger dick over the years than Kent but it's not possible to not honor pull requests from the creator and main developer of the Linux kernel, not to mention the owner of the Linux trademark.
It's the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality.
I can't wait for the day when Linux and Linus go the way of the dodo.
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I've definitely been in a situation where someone is acting on the basis of faulty logic and wanted to just shake them to get their attention and convince them that we're having a more than run-of-the-mill difference of opinions. While I've never gone nearly as far as the quoted post, I did try to use some attention-grabbing prose, and I did get slapped for it. More than I should've, IMO. So, I can actually see it from that side (though, not having followed that thread or Kent's other actions, I won't go so far as to side with him).
In my case, the problem is that there was no adult in the room. The person I was arguing with basically was allowed to enact whatever bizarre thought they had, without accountability or consequences. There was no 3rd party, adjudicating the matter on its technical merits. A 3rd party only got involved to castigate me for my loss of decorum.
When rhetoric gets overheated, it could just mean that there's not a good, orderly decision-making process in place. If there were, it would reduce the stakes of one-on-one interactions as each party would be able to make their best case to the individual or committee adjudicating the matter. Then they're bound to abide by the decision, no matter how they feel about it. They will at least have had their case being given a fair hearing.
So, can someone more familiar with the Linux kernel development process confirm or deny the presence of an orderly decision-making process? Is it ultimately up to Uncle Linus (if he's not too busy with other fires) and which side of the bed he woke up on, that day?
The lack of a fair and orderly process could be the root of the problem, and dealing with decorum before addressing that is merely a band-aid at best. Yes, it could make the mailing list seem less toxic, but it won't address the rot and disillusionment if too many bad decisions are allowed to go forward.
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Looks like Linux is now designed by the code of conduct committee. This is not even the thin end of the wedge. This is the middle bit of it.
This will take a while but eventually enough people will get fed up enough with moral crusaders interfering from their high horses that Linux will get more and more fractured.
That decision the other day to unceremoniously kick out a whole bunch of Russian developers who's only "crime" it was, was to be Russians. Some of them were even subsystem maintainers! Then they kicked out yet another subsystem maintainer for daring to mock this clearly political decision by stifling his speech on the lkml. I'm not quite sure when the Linux kernel changed from a technical project to a political one, but I always thought that Linus Torvald's biggest critiques of Richard Stallman was that he was mixing politics and ethics into technical projects and now he's up to his neck in moral and speech policing. All dissenters are trolls, right? That's how it's done.
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Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post
You need to get out in the real world. Work something blue collar for a year or two. You'll see much less polite conversations happening every single day. And the work still gets done and nobody goes crying to HR. For the most part nobody even takes it personally if it's a job related beef. This is in fact the norm of how men work when they're not sitting behind a desk all day.
Yes, blue collar jobs can be quite... lets say special in their verbiage. But while there is a lot of yelling and insults, there is also following of rules and working together as a team. Also there is usually a good nature to it. Lots of ribbing, but it goes both ways and both sides know it. In a sense a CoC. You do not kick the person down. And apologies happen.
Now look at Kent: bad language, insults, breaking of rules and no working together with others.
In a blue collar job, he would have been fired a long time ago.
But since you never dealt with such people, you do not know that.
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I'm fine with this "punishment".
The fs remains, the next cycle will begin in three months.
Kent will have ample time to reconsider his words, decisions, work process and ethics and become a little bit more condescending and nuanced to fellow Linux developers.
There's no need for ad hominem in the LKML. Especially his email where he was outright gross towards a MM developer.
Let's keep it professional and talk code.
Being in the kernel is such a huge advantage, Kent, you really need to think twice before warring with everyone. A ton more testing, coverage, input from others and ease of use.
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I can see that two butt heads errr... butting heads ... on a kernel mailing list both having thick hides (and faces) can look after themselves with no deletarious consequences for themseves, it is the damage to the project itself in deterring potential contributors and alienating the existing civil contributors that must be the overriding concern.
While the limelight shines on the prima donnas (prime donne, istrione) responsible for major kernel components, it is the smaller tasks involving maintenance, documentation undertaken by a legion of largely unremarked contributors that keep any project viable.
These essential participants are contrastingly remarkable for their workmanlike approach to their tasks and civility.
So perhaps the cockheads do required a CoC to protect the long term health of a project.
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Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post
You need to get out in the real world. Work something blue collar for a year or two. You'll see much less polite conversations happening every single day. And the work still gets done and nobody goes crying to HR. For the most part nobody even takes it personally if it's a job related beef. This is in fact the norm of how men work when they're not sitting behind a desk all day.
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