Linux CoC Announces Decision Following Recent Bcachefs Drama

[User29]

Kent can still get code into the 6.13 kernel whenever he wants. He just needs to have someone else submit the pull requests and other communications for him. It remains to be seen whether his ego will allow him to do it.

This is more or less what I've been saying.

Kent should shut up and code, and a liaison should communicate with the project. This person would stick to the rules, send in the commits when it's time, not earlier, not later. This person would not insult other project members, etc.

He would translate between Kent and the world.

Things would go surprisingly smooth from that on.

[NathanG]

You need to get out in the real world. Work something blue collar for a year or two. You'll see much less polite conversations happening every single day. And the work still gets done and nobody goes crying to HR. For the most part nobody even takes it personally if it's a job related beef. This is in fact the norm of how men work when they're not sitting behind a desk all day.

Almost every company I've worked with have terminated contracts for less. You'd gey away with it in some god awful startup but larger outfits... nope. It's also not how 'men' work, I've spent enough time working with industrial, logistics and military and very few act like that.

[DavidBrown]

Have you ever worked at a car workshop ? or on a construction site ? when i started working 1993 the shit you had to digest every day comes not even close to 1% what kent vented there, linux is a software workshop and construction work, if you make mistakes you get yelled, till your ears ring at that, this hole CoC shit is just an excuse for being lazy, ohh i want my life work balance, when i worked on construction site i had to get up 4 am arirve at the firm at 5 am drive 2 hours to be on site and start working at 7:30 am then get off work 4pm arriv e home at 7pm sleep repeat, and then you had to listen to all the dirty jokes and bullshit cussing and whatever the other ppl in the van just hat to say, after 5 days you start to ignore that shit and just do your work, and nowdays they all file lawsuits for harresment and stuff, it´s a sick joke, espescially if you just need to whak your brain a bit to come up with something good, and then if a argument breaks out, online you dont even have a real argument or a physical one, you start screaming at some imaginary ethics commison to get your point across, wow the world has bigger problems.

And many ppl will probably be offended by this, but thats reality.

I am sure that was reality for you. But you are missing the big issue - was it a good thing?

There are environments where a bit of "off-colour" jokes and banter between friends is fine - people don't take it seriously, and it is balanced. The slippery road to a toxic workplace is not far away, however, if someone gets carried away and teasing turns to bullying. So you either end up with a collapse of morale - people hate working there, and leave if they can - or you keep stability with a code of conduct. It's not a written CoC, and has no elected committee - it's made of the old folks that have worked there for decades that step in and tell the young hothead to calm down and give it a break. Every society or group that works has a CoC, even if it is hidden.

In a public forum with a wide range of people who don't know each other personally, you have to have clearer rules. In your car workshop, you can tell the new guy "Don't worry about what X said - he's always like that before his morning coffee. No one takes him seriously." You can't do that on the kernel mailing list. Lines need to be drawn - drawn clearly, and applied to everyone. Responses need to be impersonal because people don't know each other personally. It might appear to be overly sensitive or blowing things out of proportion, but you need to have the rules and you need to follow through on them. When two people are yelling at each other, it's the one that steps over the line that gets reprimanded.

The kernel people should be thinking of this like APIs. You don't call a function with inputs that don't fit the requirements for the API. You don't post to the mailing list with a post that doesn't fit the requirements for the list. Call the function with invalid data, and you can expect a crash - it's the same if you make posts like Kent did. You would not expect an API to give your code some slack because it should have learned by now that you sometimes give it invalid data. In fact, the rest of us are happy that it crashed your program and put it out of commission for a period, so that all the other programs can keep running correctly.

[Britoid]

since when did the word "privilege" become synonymous with "achievement"?

As a white cis straight male, it is easy to confuse ideas such as achievement or merit, when it has actually come at the disadvantage of marginalised groups due to inherit privileges.

[fotomar]

As a white cis straight male, it is easy to confuse ideas such as achievement or merit, when it has actually come at the disadvantage of marginalised groups due to inherit privileges.

“you sure have got a pretty mouth”

[varikonniemi]

Kent can still get code into the 6.13 kernel whenever he wants. He just needs to have someone else submit the pull requests and other communications for him. It remains to be seen whether his ego will allow him to do it.



It's like you're adding words like "woke" and "AI" when none of that has anything to do with any of this simply to rile people up. It makes me wonder if Linus' joke might actually be right where he suggested that Russians are using internet trolls to poison the successful works led by the West.

LOL, even many developers at LKML expressed dissatisfaction by the "passive aggressive" non-human like communication style employed by the CoC worker. So exactly like produced by AI.

It's like people like you try to distract by blaming the Russians while cheering on or secretly pushing woke ideologies that are in fact poisoning the success of the west. If you remember where west's success stemmed from it's the USA free speech culture. CoC is just one of many things that is killing it. Woke is a primary weapon.

[browseria]

Yes, I would have noticed. I follow bcachefs development closely and read the bcachefs developer mailing list. An as of just a few days ago Kent was still purposefully breaking rules.

Citation needed. Specifically, what rule(s)?

That's only because the current cycle is only a few days old and he hasn't done anything for that cycle yet. But even so he already has broken the rules this cycle as you yourself mention in your next sentence!

You seem to be knowledgeable enough to know that by the time the merge window window starts, all development has completed. Certainly all the work that Kent had planned for 6.13 was already complete and "in the can". The merge window is for merging only. Once merged, _integration_ issues are resolved. That is the purpose of the merge window, to eliminate any unforeseen integration issues, not to introduce "new" code. Kent's development for 6.13 is already complete. He was responding to an _integration_ issue. That is not against the rules, it is the entire purpose of the merge window.

Do you know how silly that sounds? What you're saying here is that he hasn't broken any rules this cycle aside from the rules he's broken this cycle. Is that really what you meant to say?

What I meant to say is yes he did break _A_ rule, but _that_ rule was modified AFTER the event had taken place and appears to have been retroactively applied for the express purpose of punishing one individual, at a time when the situation no longer existed, it had already been resolved privately. Of course, it takes two to tango, so why this rule was applied to only one person is suspect. Whatever you believe, this just smells bad for everyone involved. I freely admit I could be 100% wrong about this. But just the fact that it is a question is a problem.

I will defer to the 6.14 merge window and see what happens next. Meanwhile I'd like to give DavidBrown an award for the most sublime 100% recursive analogy post! Bravo!

[Panix]

As a white cis straight male, it is easy to confuse ideas such as achievement or merit, when it has actually come at the disadvantage of marginalised groups due to inherit privileges.

Do you have any privileges from being a brainwashed moron?

[lyamc]

As a white cis straight male, it is easy to confuse ideas such as achievement or merit, when it has actually come at the disadvantage of marginalised groups due to inherit privileges.

Britoid you gotta add the /s because some people would actually say that and believe it, so it's almost impossible to tell apart sarcasm from the seriously insane people.

[Errinwright]

Britoid you gotta add the /s because some people would actually say that and believe it, so it's almost impossible to tell apart sarcasm from the seriously insane people.

Do you even know Britoid? 'They' mean it.