Linux CoC Announces Decision Following Recent Bcachefs Drama

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • TheMightyBuzzard
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2021
    • 416

    Originally posted by pgeorgi View Post

    Even some blue collar jobs are starting to pick up some basic manners. Mostly driven by "why is nobody willing to work for me? Damn Gen-Alpha kids, and their snowflaky 'feeling'!" reasons, but if that's what it takes, I'm here for it.
    Your cause and effect aren't. Kids don't want blue collar jobs because their parents drummed into them since birth that they're special and it's beneath them. They don't even know what blue collar jobs are like, so it's not possible it's the environment.

    Comment

    • pgeorgi
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2013
      • 130

      Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post
      Your cause and effect aren't. Kids don't want blue collar jobs because their parents drummed into them since birth that they're special and it's beneath them. They don't even know what blue collar jobs are like, so it's not possible it's the environment.
      I know shop owners and kids seeking apprenticeships, some of them decidedly blue-collar on both ends. I also see how some shops have issues finding apprentices (and according to them it's always "kids these days", and indeed, "those pesky parents") while others in the same line of business have issues choosing from the pool of applicants.
      Let's just say that the latter group is normally more pleasant to interact with, both on a personal and professional level, too. That's making the rounds much more than it used to and informs students looking for a place to learn a trade.

      But blaming the parents is a tried and proven way to avoid personal responsibility, so don't let me discourage you.

      Comment

      • TheMightyBuzzard
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2021
        • 416

        Originally posted by pgeorgi View Post

        I know shop owners and kids seeking apprenticeships, some of them decidedly blue-collar on both ends. I also see how some shops have issues finding apprentices (and according to them it's always "kids these days", and indeed, "those pesky parents") while others in the same line of business have issues choosing from the pool of applicants.
        Let's just say that the latter group is normally more pleasant to interact with, both on a personal and professional level, too. That's making the rounds much more than it used to and informs students looking for a place to learn a trade.

        But blaming the parents is a tried and proven way to avoid personal responsibility, so don't let me discourage you.
        Damn right I will. You're responsible for how you raise your kids. No excuses. Full stop.

        Me? I got half a dozen assorted types of contractor friends within two blocks of my house. What am I hearing from them? I'm not hearing about any issues choosing from the pool. There is no pool. Motherfuckers are having to take people who call in once a week because there's nobody else wanting to work.

        Comment

        • Weasel
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2017
          • 4501

          I wonder when will Kent understand he's not Linus. This dude has an ego and pride he cannot sustain.

          Comment

          • w466u8tw7
            Junior Member
            • May 2024
            • 3

            Sorry but if you're going to participate in the kernel, you need to follow the rules that you agreed to and that the kernel is completely within their rights to enact and enforce.

            Crying about it and trying to play the victim doesn't change that. Nor is anyone exempt from the rules, nor should anyone be, because their code is somehow better or more important than anyone else's.

            That just makes you an asshole. Clearly there are a lot of folks in these comments who have stunted social skills and seem to be struggling to understand that.

            Comment

            • clipcarl
              Junior Member
              • Nov 2023
              • 31

              It's strange to me that so many people these days consider the idea of being civil to people you work with (and to other human beings in general) a political agenda.

              Comment

              • smitty3268
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2008
                • 6956

                Originally posted by energyman View Post

                ah that garbage again.

                Yes, blue collar jobs can be quite... lets say special in their verbiage. But while there is a lot of yelling and insults, there is also following of rules and working together as a team. Also there is usually a good nature to it. Lots of ribbing, but it goes both ways and both sides know it. In a sense a CoC. You do not kick the person down. And apologies happen.

                Now look at Kent: bad language, insults, breaking of rules and no working together with others.

                In a blue collar job, he would have been fired a long time ago.

                But since you never dealt with such people, you do not know that.
                The difference is that in a blue-collar job you are talking face to face with someone else, and if you occasionally get in an argument most people are adult enough to make up afterward and go grab a beer.

                You don't see that online. Anonymity turns people into monsters, and I think that's pretty well known. You'd never be able to say half the stuff the average person online says to someone while looking them in the face, and if you did you'd be fired by lunch because of all the fist fights getting started.

                So it's not that strange to see different rules applied for online speech in these types of jobs. I do think it's fair to argue about whether this crossed the line, or shouldn't have. Just because rules have to exist doesn't mean the line as currently defined is the correct one. I also think it's fair to say Kent is probably under the microscope a bit and not going to get any free passes, if only because he's been the source of so much recent drama and if he gets one then people will start to assume everyone else will get one too.
                Last edited by smitty3268; 23 November 2024, 07:04 PM.

                Comment

                • You-
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 1148

                  I like how few people seem to have actually read Kent's response.

                  This is about a CoC board that on the one hand, doesn't wish to follow
                  its own rules, and on the other - I can't even make sense of.​
                  Followed by what others have quoted.

                  A bigger issue for Kent is that the way he works, a lot of people might just put him on mute/silent/ignore and he will be unable to gain contributions or cooperation from others. From the same thread he has posted:

                  I'm coming off of, what, 6+ months of getting roasted and having my work quested by Linus every pull request (and he did stop that, but not before it had done real damage, both completely changing the tone of public conversations and nearly scaring off people I've been trying to hire).​
                  He cant even acknowledge that he has been obtuse. he deliberately chose to go to Linus himself instead of the FS maintainers "because he was the big dog" and ignored all other input, then pushed the limits with Linus who was far more agreeable that anyone had a right to be, and its still Linus's fault, not his.

                  The ego is big in this one.

                  Comment

                  • gbcox
                    Premium Subscriber
                    • Dec 2013
                    • 348

                    From the peanut gallery:

                    People make mistakes. That's part of being human. Hopefully Kent will keep his head down, continue working behind the scenes and when the suspension is up, continue his work. I don't have any idea what is going on behind the scenes, but obviously Kent is a talented, valuable member of the community. In addition to a suspension, the CoC should have some type of meaningful mediation to get to the root cause of the issues and work to get them resolved. Suspensions (aka timeouts) don't really do much without additional counseling.

                    Kent obviously believes he is being treated unfairly for some reason. That needs to be resolved.
                    Last edited by gbcox; 23 November 2024, 07:43 PM.

                    Comment

                    • habilain
                      Junior Member
                      • Feb 2016
                      • 37

                      Originally posted by gbcox View Post
                      obviously Kent is a talented, valuable member of the community.
                      I think part of the issue is that this statement is debatable. Kent's obviously got some talent as a filesystem dev. However, as a kernel-dev? He's been reprimanded for not following kernel development rules and pull requests with untested/inadequately tested code. If he wants to be a kernel-dev, that's a bare minimum. He could be a genius level filesystem dev and a failure of a kernel-dev at the same time.

                      I suspect that part of the reason Kent feels hard-done by the CoC is because no-one is willing to argue for him at this stage. He's been burning bridges with the community he's trying to work with pretty much since bcachefs got merged, and that's entirely on him. If you're working with other people, technical merit alone isn't going to be enough, especially when reasonable alternatives exist (i.e. bcachefs development on a fork of the kernel, with a goal to merging after it's no longer considered experimental).

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X