Bcachefs Changes Rejected Reportedly Due To CoC, Kernel Future "Uncertain"

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  • npwx
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2022
    • 139

    #81
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
    also of note, lets be clear what the issue here is.

    The issue here is not kent being toxic, it's that COC is demanding a public appology, despite it already being worked out, start reading from here https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/vvulqfv...@7qj4gyaw2zfo/
    Reading through the thread, that is really exactly the bullshit people expect from CoC enforcement. Shuah insists on an appology "to the community", which appears to be used as a strawman for "I want you to appologize to recognize my powers".

    The community itself doesn't seem to give a crap, the only people complaining are CoC people.

    Comment

    • MillionToOne
      Phoronix Member
      • Aug 2024
      • 108

      #82
      Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post

      Me? I've been coding since before the camel book was out for Perl and I'm still laid back and easy to work with. But I'm not nice. If you start an argument, I will finish it. Brutally. And I will be right. But I won't take it personally.
      Assholes with egos don't know how to argue because they only see the world from their perspective. You are a great example of this because you think you'll be right every time. Arguments with people that have egos aren't productive arguments because one side refuses to even listen to others' arguments. Therefore trying to convince a fool they're wrong is just wasting time.

      Comment

      • avis
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2022
        • 2267

        #83
        Originally posted by mobadboy View Post
        Thousands of engineers work on the kernel without issue. Food for thought.

        It's pretty sad that Kent can't see the obviousness of the problems. Don't be an asshole, do participate in discussions and procedures the way everyone else does, don't be a bigot. Kent is certainly not a bigot and can sometimes be an asshole, more in the past, but he still thinks of the Linux Kernel as one which he leads or remotely has a leadership spot and acts like everyone should operate his way. It's more important that the kernel continue to thrive than for it to gain a single promising filesystem.​

        If Kent feels like he can lead such a massive and consequential project, maybe he can develop his own kernel?

        His technical skills are obviously strong but his people skills are not. You need both. This isn't some random project.
        And you know you're lying or/and exaggerating Kent's behavior and words, when Linus himself was the subject of the CoC committee a few years ago and even had to take a break from the LKML because of that:

        Linux's creator is stepping back from his Linux kernel work -- to work instead on his behavior toward other developers.


        CoC is Woke Cancer that does NOT belong to engineering or anything at all.

        And of course you don't expect anything from Linux fans who are willing to crucify anything who's against their free toy.

        The amount of hatred and flak that Kent has received here on Phoronix, r/Linux and other Linux related resources despite offering the most advanced native Linux FS to date is staggering.

        Almost universally, any time there's a power vacuum (whether in the first larger-than-tribes societies, or in societies where state power has become weak), the first authority figures that fill the power vacuum are dicks - overly violent, because that's how they come to power.
        I will sign below each word of this statement.
        Last edited by avis; 21 November 2024, 07:36 AM.

        Comment

        • M@yeulC
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2013
          • 975

          #84
          Hmm, as a Kent Patreon supporter, I hope he succeeds with bcachefs, but he also ought to take the hints sometimes. There isn't much place for ego in a collaborative project.

          I also thinks he has it backwards with his little story. Code of conducts are useful tools to reign in the "dicks" and get them to change their behavior, or get them excluded. CoC are not the actual violent authority figures., they are here to safeguard everyone against them.

          Comment

          • npwx
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2022
            • 139

            #85
            Originally posted by M@yeulC View Post
            I also thinks he has it backwards with his little story. Code of conducts are useful tools to reign in the "dicks" and get them to change their behavior, or get them excluded. CoC are not the actual violent authority figures., they are here to safeguard everyone against them.
            I'm not so sure. According to his own statement, he has "worked it out" with Michal. Michal seems to agree. So the only thing left is "Shuah", whoever that is, insisting on an "appology to the community". Now, that obviously would be easily solved, however I understand his reluctance given that she apparently just wants to demonstrate her powers.

            Comment

            • discocat
              Junior Member
              • Aug 2024
              • 12

              #86
              The thing is that this is not work. While at work, you may not be able to avoid working with awful people. But the kernel development is a community project.

              If he's being a pain, he can be shown the door by the other devs or the board ensuring the code of conduct is enforced. That's all this is, no "power grab" conspiracy.

              And really, I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier.

              Comment

              • waxhead
                Premium For Life
                • Jul 2014
                • 1153

                #87
                In attempting to reset this a bit with a couple of comments:

                Kent yells about kmalloc() with the nofail flag not failing (which the noflag is for). The manual for kmallloc() even says "think twice before using". Need I say more?

                I personally deeply hate CoC / woke / cancel culture etc, but at the same time CoC ***can*** be a mechanisms for thinking about facts and using them in an argument instead of "fillers" e.g. crap talk. Not that I have anything against crap talk, but sometimes someone needs to step in (after a while, not right away) and tell people that things have gone out of hand.

                I hope bcachefs stays in the kernel, but with the attitude that Kent has think about this: if you run into a problem and Kent don't think it's a problem then what?


                http://www.dirtcellar.net

                Comment

                • Britoid
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2013
                  • 2173

                  #88
                  Originally posted by avis View Post

                  And you know you're lying or/and exaggerating Kent's behavior and words, when Linus himself was the subject of the CoC committee a few years ago and even had to take a break from the LKML because of that:

                  Linux's creator is stepping back from his Linux kernel work -- to work instead on his behavior toward other developers.


                  CoC is Woke Cancer that does NOT belong to engineering or anything at all.

                  And of course you don't expect anything from Linux fans who are willing to crucify anything who's against their free toy.

                  The amount of hatred and flak that Kent has received here on Phoronix, r/Linux and other Linux related resources despite offering the most advanced native Linux FS to date is staggering.



                  I will sign below each word of this statement.
                  Problem with CoCs is that they're used as a shield for people to be horrible to others or outcast people with different view points, but designed so that anyone who opposes them looks like a horrible person.

                  Comment

                  • mos87
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2016
                    • 466

                    #89
                    Imagine if todays Internet was around at the time of the LVM vs EVMS argument.

                    Comment

                    • spockfish
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2020
                      • 12

                      #90
                      Originally posted by npwx View Post

                      I'm not so sure. According to his own statement, he has "worked it out" with Michal. Michal seems to agree. So the only thing left is "Shuah", whoever that is, insisting on an "appology to the community". Now, that obviously would be easily solved, however I understand his reluctance given that she apparently just wants to demonstrate her powers.
                      It comes down to the same behavior from day one: he could just follow the rules and apologize to the community. Instead, again, he goes on a rant why his pov is better.
                      Which could very well be, but he should think about his project. Because if Bcachefs ends with this, it is himself who is to blame. Not Linus, not a CoC.

                      Comment

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