Bcachefs Changes Rejected Reportedly Due To CoC, Kernel Future "Uncertain"

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  • gotar
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2021
    • 251

    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    Your first example is an example of voting by committee, just with extra steps.
    Absolutely different things. Committee has privileged members, anyone's personal KillFile is under his own control.
    I - as a bystander, can read or ban anyone I want.

    Even the most abusive programmer could get his code upstreamed, for the benefit of everyone, if only there were at least one "hero" coping with him.

    Your next two examples are censorship,
    There was only one example (moderation), I have no idea what were you hallucinating about.

    And again - entirely different things. Censorship applies to ideas or person who writes, moderation happens about how you write.

    If you only lived in commie country you could see these differences.

    not to mention pussyfooting around the problem. It's amazing that the "anti-woke" crowd has gone so far, they've wrapped right back around to censorship and not hurting people's feelings lmao.
    Where did you see that "not hurting feelings"? Another hallucination?

    Oh, I see - you took my personal way of handling anger myself with some dictatorship?

    Comment

    • gotar
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2021
      • 251

      Originally posted by clipcarl View Post
      Yes, I'm aware. I used bcache (briefly) on production systems years ago. But I'm talking about bcachefs here.
      No, you did wrote:

      Originally posted by clipcarl View Post
      The old Linus, before his kinder, gentler Linus 2.0 reboot, would have chewed Kent up and spit him out a long time ago and it would have been over before it got anywhere near this point.
      ​Which was proved to be wrong by counterexample.

      Comment

      • gotar
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2021
        • 251

        Originally posted by andyprough View Post
        All I care about is if there is a compelling reason to use the fs and to believe it will be stable and trustworthy, and I'm not seeing one now or on the near horizon.
        The point is this is the only decent fs on the horizon, no matter how far, unless ZFS can make it's way somehow.
        But even then, ZFS is way, way, way more demanding (because of advancements) and won't become the mainstream anyway.

        And before anyone jumps with some btrfs band-aid, I've recently written why it's not going well.
        I might be wrong - commits welcome.

        Comment

        • clipcarl
          Junior Member
          • Nov 2023
          • 31

          Originally posted by gotar View Post

          ​Which was proved to be wrong by counterexample.

          Bcache is not the same thing as bcachefs.

          Comment

          • mdedetrich
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2019
            • 2548

            Originally posted by clipcarl View Post


            Bcache is not the same thing as bcachefs.
            I fail to see how this is proving your point

            Comment

            • andyprough
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2012
              • 2453

              Originally posted by gotar View Post
              The point is this is the only decent fs on the horizon, no matter how far, unless ZFS can make it's way somehow.
              But even then, ZFS is way, way, way more demanding (because of advancements) and won't become the mainstream anyway.
              Well if that's the case, then starting right about now everyone involved should knock off the screaming and yelling, including Kent, Linus, Michael the maintainer, Shua the CoC person, etc etc. Otherwise it will just be known as a highly charged emotionally unstable project, a la ReiserFS, and no serious person will want to be the one who takes a chance on it screwing up their company's critical data.

              Comment

              • clipcarl
                Junior Member
                • Nov 2023
                • 31

                Originally posted by gotar View Post
                The point is this is the only decent fs on the horizon, no matter how far, unless ZFS can make it's way somehow.
                It's not as dire as all that. While bcachefs is definitely interesting and has some nice things about it virtually all of its advantages can be be replicated right now with the right combination of logical block layer devices and tried-and-true older filesystems. For example taking the old-school layered approach of dm-verity + MD RAID + Luks + LVM2 + XFS can do just almost everything bcachefs can do now (and has planned for the future) and they can currently do it a lot faster and more reliably than bcachefs. About the only thing bcachefs (and ZFS) can do that's not as easy to implement efficiently using the layered approach is compression and that's more of a niche thing for enthusiasts like us than something that's really needed widely. And if you really, really want that you could add Red Hat's VDO to the layers (but it's very bloated and slow).

                And while having a one stop shop for everything the way bcachefs and ZFS do can be convenient it can also be a negative when you go all-in on this approach as I found out professionally when we ran into performance issues with ZFS that couldn't be solved without replacing it. Because of it instead of just needing to replace a filesystem, we also needed to replace the multiple device layer, the logical volume management layer and how we handled snapshots all at once which required a massive amount of retooling. I didn't sleep for like 3 weeks straight. If we'd used a more conservative layered approach in the first place just swapping out one filesystem for another while leaving all the other layers intact would have saved a huge headache.

                Comment

                • mdedetrich
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2019
                  • 2548

                  Originally posted by clipcarl View Post

                  It's not as dire as all that. While bcachefs is definitely interesting and has some nice things about it virtually all of its advantages can be be replicated right now with the right combination of logical block layer devices and tried-and-true older filesystems. For example taking the old-school layered approach of dm-verity + MD RAID + Luks + LVM2 + XFS can do just almost everything bcachefs can do now (and has planned for the future) and they can currently do it a lot faster and more reliably than bcachefs. About the only thing bcachefs (and ZFS) can do that's not as easy to implement efficiently using the layered approach is compression and that's more of a niche thing for enthusiasts like us than something that's really needed widely. And if you really, really want that you could add Red Hat's VDO to the layers (but it's very bloated and slow).
                  Why do people keep on repeating this bullshit, XFS cannot do everything bcachefs/ZFS can do, it’s not a CoW filesystem and it never was designed to be. It cannot provide the safety guarantees that CoW filesystems can because XFS relies on journaling.

                  That is not a bad thing in XFS, XFS has some advantages i.e. it’s massively parallelizable so if you want the max performance at scale it will likely always win but at the same time if you want to make sure your data is always safe with XFS you better make sure you have a spare room with diesel generators + UPS so that you never get a hard power cutoff (and yes this is what enterprises do at scale, it’s also what meta does with btrfs)

                  Comment

                  • Boilerplate4U
                    Junior Member
                    • Apr 2024
                    • 1

                    Kent might wanna follow Linus' example from 2018 and take a short break. Linus might even have a quick chat with him about it...

                    Comment

                    • Panix
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 1555

                      Originally posted by ZeroPointEnergy View Post
                      People who are not fine with the CoC should just fork off and make altrightix, the OS that enables you to say the n-word and preserve your freedom
                      What if ppl think it's better that you fork off?

                      Comment

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