Originally posted by browseria
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Bcachefs Changes Rejected Reportedly Due To CoC, Kernel Future "Uncertain"
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Originally posted by Nocifer View PostIf you want to mess with critical parts of the kernel that you deem "subpar", you first have to 1) prove that they're subpar to your colleagues, and 2) play by the rules, i.e. you have to submit your patches early enough so that said colleagues have the chance to review them and voice their own opinion on the validity of your assumptions.
This is how a meritocracy is supposed to work: experts debating on an equal basis while respecting one another.
Kent has repeatedly and intentionally failed on both of these accounts, and on top of that he's now also started treating his colleagues with disdain and even resorting to calling them names whenever they don't immediately give him exactly what he wants.
That is what started this issue in the first place.
Here's the clue to who is at fault: the first rule when you have a losing argument is to attack the messenger and not the message. All I see in this thread is people attacking Kent for this or that perceived grievance, but I don't see anyone talking about the substance of his argument. Why is that?
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Originally posted by nadir View Post
Not the first, but maybe the 3795th time.
He has made exactly zero positive contributions to the space and is widely known for it. Kicking him out would be an improvement, but then he'd make *another* account, just as he did before.
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Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post
You should be, yes. The CoC idiots are going to side with a technically incorrect assertion because the correct one hurt the person who was wrong's feelings.
I just realized that you have a Bird Name...that explains a lot.
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Originally posted by npwx View Post
While I don't think he's "the smartest guy in the room" or that this is even relevant for being a good programmer, you can witness live how that produces the "best results".
IOW, this is complete nonsense.
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Originally posted by mrg666 View Post
MM and block systems are just fine. There are fixes and improvements all the time as in all software but Linux kernel is solid and reliable. The problem is isolated to Kent's attitude 100%. Either deal with Linus and COC professionally or get out. That is what I suggested. Do not spread the problem to smear all of the Linux project. This is on Kent and only on Kent.
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Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
No one's feelings were hurt. Kent said things against the rules like "CoC idiots".
I just realized that you have a Bird Name...that explains a lot.
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Dressing sentiments up in nice words doesn't change the sentiments.
A 'public apology' would be paying lip-service to the CoC, which diminishes all concerned.
Most people do not understand the passion in discussions/debates/arguments between technical experts in their fields. The key thing is being able to accept that you are wrong when it is demonstrated to you when you are wrong. The name-calling is being passionate about what you believe in, but your technical arguments will be tested by fire, and you always have to be able to justify your position: there is no deference to past accomplishments. Kernel developers work hard to get to the point where they can argue at a peer-to-peer level.
Referring your peers to previous discussions without giving links is plain rude. It is actually dismissing your peer by valuing their time less than your own. That is being egotistical.
Unfortunately, very smart people have a tendency to believe that administrative rules do not apply to them (administrivia), so for some kernel developers, following the rules is simply not within their experience. It's hard to change that behaviour, but that is probably Kent's major failing.
If people have come to an agreement now, I don't think it is helpful for a CoC Committee to insist upon a public apology. Don't hold grudges, but reward good behaviour.
If Kent's goal is to have BcacheFS a well-used fileysstem, then I hope he is intelligent enough to realise that that goal is likely to be compromised if he does not fit in better with Linus and the rest of the kernel developer community. As an intellectual exercise, he can plot out a strategy that has the greatest chance of BcacheFS being widely adopted. I would be surprised if his current behaviours are the best approach, and I would be even more surprised if he can't see this. Then again, even smart people get tunnel vision sometimes.
I hope BcacheFS makes it. If it doesn't, then I hope future FS developers will reflect upon why it didn't, and modify their behaviour accordingly.
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