Bcachefs Changes Rejected Reportedly Due To CoC, Kernel Future "Uncertain"

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  • nadir
    Phoronix Member
    • Sep 2021
    • 56

    Originally posted by browseria View Post

    The first reaction to someone saying something you don't agree with shouldn't be to call for kicking them out of a community! Proportional response, please? I don't agree with avis/birdie on much, but I don't believe he is posting in bad faith, he honestly believes what he believes and is trying to communicate that to you. He's here because he feels as strongly about Linux as you do. I would hope each of us would have the humility to listen to what is being said, evaluate it and respond with the same respect shown to you.
    Not the first, but maybe the 3795th time.

    He has made exactly zero positive contributions to the space and is widely known for it. Kicking him out would be an improvement, but then he'd make *another* account, just as he did before.

    Comment

    • mdedetrich
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2019
      • 2537

      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
      According to a lot of the folks on the Phoronix forums I should be upset at Shuah for enforcing that very minimalist and easy to follow Code of Conduct and not Kent for violating it.
      Shes not enforcing it, shes forcing Kent to publicly apologize (even though the tensions have apparently been resolved now) which is by far the worst way to settle such matters.

      Comment

      • browseria
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2018
        • 154

        Originally posted by mrg666 View Post
        If I were Kent, I would take the development out and complete independently in sync with mainline (just like Con Kolivas was doing with BFS). If bcachefs is as good as it is aimed to be, it will be merged again.
        But that doesn't address the issue. The issue is the kernel is a system, the FS system is dependent upon the MM and Block systems to be correct and error free. You can't just isolate it to just what Kent is doing. The other parts of the kernel have to be up to par as well. And they are not. Which is what started the issue in the first place.

        Comment

        • Nocifer
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2018
          • 224

          Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post
          Me? I've been coding since before the camel book was out for Perl and I'm still laid back and easy to work with. But I'm not nice. If you start an argument, I will finish it. Brutally. And I will be right. But I won't take it personally.


          This has to be one of the funniest "internet tough guy" quotes I've ever read on Phoronix.
          Last edited by Nocifer; 21 November 2024, 10:33 AM.

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          • browseria
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2018
            • 154

            Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post
            To lower the nonsense noise level in the site, that would be a net positive for the world. Also because nothing of value would be lost.
            Humans are imperfect. Dealing with them necessitates you deal with a certain level of "noise". That's the deal. And there IS something of value that would be lost: perspective. You and he looked at the same evidence and arrived at a different conclusion. It would be valuable to understand where you two parted ways in your understanding of events.

            Comment

            • browseria
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2018
              • 154

              Originally posted by nadir View Post
              Not the first, but maybe the 3795th time.

              He has made exactly zero positive contributions to the space and is widely known for it. Kicking him out would be an improvement, but then he'd make *another* account, just as he did before.
              I don't want to make this personal. I too get tired of the same posts with links to the same Issues in GitLab trying to prove a point, but he _has_ a point, and in this case, I happen to agree with him, the CoC and how it is being wielded here is the bigger problem. Everyone has something of value to contribute, sometimes you just got a deal with a lot of non-value to get to it. Do I wish it wasn't so? Sure, but that's not reality. Avis' strongest arguments are when he points out the hypocrisy in some of LInux's conventional wisdom. The emperor has no clothes, as it were. Having someone point out to you the emperor really is naked is a necessary first step to dealing with reality. Or you can just continue to ignore the points Avis makes that you don't agree with. Your choice. But I don't believe his argument is wrong, or that he is wrong in voicing it, or that he should be banned for voicing it! That is all.
              Last edited by browseria; 21 November 2024, 10:47 AM.

              Comment

              • Nocifer
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2018
                • 224

                Originally posted by browseria View Post

                But that doesn't address the issue. The issue is the kernel is a system, the FS system is dependent upon the MM and Block systems to be correct and error free. You can't just isolate it to just what Kent is doing. The other parts of the kernel have to be up to par as well. And they are not. Which is what started the issue in the first place.
                If you want to mess with critical parts of the kernel that you deem "subpar", you first have to 1) prove that they're subpar to your colleagues, and 2) play by the rules, i.e. you have to submit your patches early enough so that said colleagues have the chance to review them and voice their own opinion on the validity of your assumptions.

                This is how a meritocracy is supposed to work: experts debating on an equal basis while respecting one another.

                Kent has repeatedly and intentionally failed on both of these accounts, and on top of that he's now also started treating his colleagues with disdain and even resorting to calling them names whenever they don't immediately give him exactly what he wants.

                That is what started this issue in the first place.

                Comment

                • TheMightyBuzzard
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2021
                  • 416

                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                  For the record, this is what Kent said:



                  This was the response:



                  According to a lot of the folks on the Phoronix forums I should be upset at Shuah for enforcing that very minimalist and easy to follow Code of Conduct and not Kent for violating it.
                  You should be, yes. The CoC idiots are going to side with a technically incorrect assertion because the correct one hurt the person who was wrong's feelings.

                  Comment

                  • TheMightyBuzzard
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2021
                    • 416

                    Originally posted by Nocifer View Post


                    This has to be one of the funniest "internet tough guy" quotes I've ever read on Phoronix.
                    He asked, dipshit.

                    Comment

                    • skeevy420
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2017
                      • 8633

                      Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

                      Shes not enforcing it, shes forcing Kent to publicly apologize (even though the tensions have apparently been resolved now) which is by far the worst way to settle such matters.
                      Pointing out the rules, asking for them to be followed, and forcing an apology is literally enforcement. The definition is the process of making people obey a law or rule, or making a particular situation happen or be accepted​.

                      That said, I agree with the rest of that. Forced apologies are worthless. A forced apology is a non-punishment. I don't see them as any different than an abuser apologizing for the 100th time after after being an abuser for the 100th time. Not trying to sound too sexist, but you'd think a woman would see that. You have to actually punish abusive people and force them to reflect on their actions. It applied to Linus back in the day and it applies to Kent now.

                      Comment

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