EU probes Oracle-Sun deal, cites open-source issue

[lordmozilla]

The US does exactly the same than the EU poking around with big mergers. True the EU does it with anyone - not scared of messing with american giants such as microsoft and intel which in the US are too big to be regulated by your corrupt political system full of lobyists.

But when a european company tries to buy a US one or do a big merger, look at what happens..... Fiat and Chrysler... Now they just couldnt stand the fact that their little star would get eaten by "fix it again tony"

[L33F3R]

Tax loopholes is a whole new ordeal. Obama is doing good on that 1. Regulation for consumer safety is also important. I do not contest that.

But anti-competitiveness? that's anti capitalism. Businesses are not puppets that the government uses to leech taxes and manipulate (which to a degree they do already). If thats what businesses start to become then very little businesses will spawn and innovation along with it. You start a business to buy the bread, not pay taxes or get surrounded by red tape. Multinationals or not, the point is right now you cant live without M$ or intel when it comes to the daily operations of society. The thought of losing money shouldn't even be considered because they have the power to cripple the countries that oppose them. and i'll tell you what, thats not good for the consumer but these 2 companies earned the stage they stand on. You cant have both a vibrant economy and an equal society, you can have something in the middle. This middle ground protects consumer safety and security as well as sponsor small business growth, which as i recall, is one of obamas hitting points. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to look at either extreme of the spectrum (nazi and commie), and see how it rly didn't work out for them.

Ill make note, im a very liberal guy. But my eyes are open to the fact that western society runs on business. Not only that but business made western society what it is. This is accepted as fact.

And based on that, what environment might endorse you to start a company (which might i add, was a huge topic on the 2008 USA election):

A. Free market principals, make as much as you can or want. We will place restrictions on you to protect consumers health and safety but you are free to grow as you wish beyond that.

B. We endorse a competitive marketplace with choices. We will place restrictions on you to protect consumers health and safety. If a company gets too large and anti-competitive then we will slow it down.

If you chose (B), you are an idiot. I tried my best to minimise bias but the answer is so historically obvious it hits you in the face.

[krazy]

but what i dont understand is why they actually pay it. Lets be honest, you cant make a foreign company pay anything it doesnt want to without the host governments assertion. Only course of action would be to bar the company. Banning companies like M$ or Intel would collapse any economy without question.

The thing is that no company like Microsoft or Intel is really based in the US anymore (financially anyway); they don't call them Multinationals for nothing.
Microsoft, for example, routes much of its revenue through an Irish subsidiary in order to avoid paying US taxes. Steve Ballmer recently whinged about Obama making it more difficult for MS to use this 'loophole' in the US tax regs.

This document has some more info. It's an industry-funded report, so is very anti-Obama's-reforms, but it has this quote:

Intel, for example, employs 45,000 people in the United States and manufactures 75 percent of its products here; yet the world’s biggest chipmaker generates 80 percent of revenues abroad.

All this gives MS, Intel, and other multinationals a very strong incentive to ask "How high?" when the EU tells them to jump.

Regardless of playing politics, its a matter of freedom. Freedom to make as much as you want. Like it or not, greed is the foundation of all of our economies and will continue to be so.

You may be right but corporate freedom is different to personal freedom and needs some kind of regulation. Personally I'm glad that the EU is taking a strong stand against anti-competitive business practices. In any monopoly, the general public is the biggest loser.

[L33F3R]

They don't have to bar them. They can just fine them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Ask ms. or intel.

but what i dont understand is why they actually pay it. Lets be honest, you cant make a foreign company pay anything it doesnt want to without the host governments assertion. Only course of action would be to bar the company. Banning companies like M$ or Intel would collapse any economy without question.

Regardless of playing politics, its a matter of freedom. Freedom to make as much as you want. Like it or not, greed is the foundation of all of our economies and will continue to be so.

[deanjo]

well sir deanjo. I am a Nigerian businessman who has encountered dire problems and am trapped in the UK because of an expired visa. The Nigerian embassy requires payment to renew my visa but the bank has locked my account for security reasons. In order for my account to be unlocked I request you to send 4,000 united states dollars to my account and the released funds of 50,000 united states dollars will be shared between us.

Oh hell that sounds legit, will you take that payment in postage stamps?

[L33F3R]

No but they do have a large sum of money they wish to hide in your bank account if you forward your banking info so they can deposit it....

well sir deanjo. I am a Nigerian businessman who has encountered dire problems and am trapped in the UK because of an expired visa. The Nigerian embassy requires payment to renew my visa but the bank has locked my account for security reasons. In order for my account to be unlocked I request you to send 4,000 united states dollars to my account and the released funds of 50,000 united states dollars will be shared between us.

[deanjo]

they prolly do business in Africa but we dont see African countries caring about market competition.

No but they do have a large sum of money they wish to hide in your bank account if you forward your banking info so they can deposit it....

[LenS]

they prolly do business in Africa but we dont see African countries caring about market competition. As bad as a lack of competition is, such is a nice position to be in if you own that business.

If the EU thinks that such a merger is wrong then does it not have the ability to bar oracle? We all know that would never happen. If you dont like the food your served you dont eat it, common frigin sense. Ill remember next time I go to europe that when i buy a souvenir i will be subject to whether or not i can look at it back in canada.

They don't have to bar them. They can just fine them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Ask ms. or intel.

[L33F3R]

they prolly do business in Africa but we dont see African countries caring about market competition. As bad as a lack of competition is, such is a nice position to be in if you own that business.

If the EU thinks that such a merger is wrong then does it not have the ability to bar oracle? We all know that would never happen. If you dont like the food your served you dont eat it, common frigin sense. Ill remember next time I go to europe that when i buy a souvenir i will be subject to whether or not i can look at it back in canada.

[LenS]

As a side note I find it absolutely hilarious that the EU is basically saying that a proprietary company is responsible for maintaining a opensource project. After all isn't one of the biggest things about opensource the ability to continue support of projects if the company decides to quit supporting it?

I agree completely, though I would characterize it as "business as usual" rather than hilarious. I think the first and last lines of the cnet article sum up the situation pretty well:

"IBM and Hewlett-Packard could not have planned it any better. "
"The EU is entering deep water here, water that it clearly does not adequately understand."

Just another case of pols not really understanding the issue, but understanding very well what some of their deep pocket contributors want.

some things require government intervention, like when it comes to defence or consumer safety. But this is flat out ridiculous.

Besides wiki is telling me that both sun and oracle are american, so would someone please tell me why the EU is getting involved?

Simple. Sun and Oracle do business in Europe. They have to abide by European laws for the businesses they have there.