Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted

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  • anolting
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2015
    • 17

    #41
    Originally posted by kernel_titan View Post

    You raise a valid point that they could try to sneak in malware to achieve their geopolitical aims and cause huge damages to critical infrastructure in enemy countries. But the thing is that it's not just Russia that wants to/could take advantage of it. It's every single nation-state and their intel agencies, including the US, that could engage in such activity. Applying that logic, Linux development would just stop. Even though I completely support Ukraine fighting back against Russian imperialism trying to conquer Ukrainian land (AND the US supporting Ukrainian in doing so), this preemptive removal of a supposed future threat and essentially branding all these maintainers as Russian government agents, without an iota of evidence, is not something that I personally support. This just sows a lot of distrust in ANY code in the future that comes from Russian people. More so than would be raised on code submitted by people of other nationalities.
    Completely agree. And some said already: xz was the best example ever how infiltration works. IMHO nothing will stop Russia from manipulating software if it serves their goals whatever they may be. So this action is nothing more than clumsy, ill-considered actionism - and probably populism.

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    • anarsoul
      Phoronix Member
      • Jun 2009
      • 55

      #42
      Originally posted by ziguana View Post
      Then Linus should offer that as an explanation instead of smug dismissal of legitimate concerns as trolling.
      My assumption is that it's lawyer's requirement. Anyway, he said enough. It's not all the Russians who are targeted, it's sanctioned companies (and their employees).

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      • opticblu
        Junior Member
        • Aug 2023
        • 17

        #43
        I’m not even picking sides on the geopolitics. Nobody can be objectively right on such things; too many variables.

        What IS clear and should be the most obvious thing to even a scarcely objective observer is that individual citizens rarely just categorically agree with their government, particularly when it comes to armed conflict. It varies nation by nation but my guess is that the average open source contributor, regardless of country of origin, doesn’t take any pleasure in war waging or widespread death.

        TL;DR— individual citizens aren’t their government

        Comment

        • skeevy420
          Senior Member
          • May 2017
          • 8643

          #44
          Originally posted by avis View Post
          Inclusivity, they said.

          Contributions based on merit, they said.

          All empty words in the end.

          What's the meaning of "open" in "open source"? Or it was never "open" to begin with?
          It's like Free in "The Land of the Free". There are stipulations attached and laws to be followed else there's anarchy or Free becomes defined by those with the biggest guns. Speaking of which ...

          Originally posted by vextium View Post
          I'm usually on Linus side here, but this is absurd and stupid, what about the Israel v Palestine “war”? (more like genocide, but that beyond the point right now) Why isn't that conflict getting the same treatment?
          Because Israel is a puppet state for America and Palestine isn't. Look at all the atrocities that America has managed to get away with over the past few hundred years, a lot of times in the name of God and Christianity, because they're powerful enough to enforce their narrative of "The Land of the Free" that's used to trick people into thinking they're freer and better of than they actually are. Hitler looked to American history for inspiration for concentration camps and lessons on how to commit mass genocide; for lessons on how to push the narrative of freedom while enforcing the narrative of racial supremacy.​ Americans trying to change the narrative from racial supremacy to equality is the cause of Woke Divisions.

          The American camps still exist. We call them "Reservations" and America has spun the narrative that them being allowed to live on Reservations instead of their ancestral lands is doing a good deed. I don't see that much of a difference between the various peoples forced to live in Oklahoma or the First Nations in Canada and the Palestinians forced into Reservations like Gaza aside from the level of oppression and genocide.

          The real reason for the American Revolution was to renege on treaties the Crown made with various Indian tribes as well as expand into lands beyond the Appalachian Mountains. It wasn't taxes. Americans had the lowest taxes of all the English colonies. Why do you think that America's Divine Providence and Expansion didn't happen until after the Crown was defeated? Because the Crown, as shitty as they historically were, at least respected the deals they made.

          While I'm highlighting America, China, India, and a lot of other world powers have very similar instances in their modern histories, too. Supporting Israel is supporting the status quo. Supporting Palestine opens up a lot of world powers into having to rectify their historical atrocities.

          ALL OF THAT SAID, I'm neither upset nor surprised that the kernel maintainers are following the laws of the countries that they live under.

          Comment

          • mrg666
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2023
            • 1074

            #45
            Thank you, Linus, Freedom for Ukraine. I can live without any Russian contribution, actually, live better without their state-sponsored deceptions. Good riddance!

            Comment

            • phoron
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2015
              • 201

              #46
              Originally posted by hkupty View Post
              I agree that it is an escalation, but three years into the war, those who oppose should have had their ties with Russia cut already. Sporting a .ru email now is likely a sign that you aren't so opposed to the aggression, at least at first glance.
              I have no idea how easy that is. I think some people left Russia around march 2022, but maybe now it's much harder to either move away or to show publically any dissent against Putin, maybe even changing email address? Of course changing your email address when you already have it in lots of places may not be comfortable in any case, but in a totalitarian state, I don't know, maybe it's more dangerous. I have no idea where the removed maintainers currently live or work or what they think of Putin, of the war or of any political issue. They might be in some underground resistance to Putin or voluntereed on the Russian army or Wagner. No idea. Using an .ru address tells me nothing.

              But if people is getting so susceptible to email domains, then maybe removing .ru addresses from MAINTAINERS is protecting any users that may automatically add those addresses to messages when working with linux, and if that's now such a serious crime...

              In any case, if this masterpiece of western geostrategy causes Putin to withdraw from Ukraine and resign I'll be the first to celebrate...

              Comment

              • skeevy420
                Senior Member
                • May 2017
                • 8643

                #47
                Originally posted by opticblu View Post
                I’m not even picking sides on the geopolitics. Nobody can be objectively right on such things; too many variables.

                What IS clear and should be the most obvious thing to even a scarcely objective observer is that individual citizens rarely just categorically agree with their government, particularly when it comes to armed conflict. It varies nation by nation but my guess is that the average open source contributor, regardless of country of origin, doesn’t take any pleasure in war waging or widespread death.

                TL;DR— individual citizens aren’t their government
                But they still have to follow the laws of the countries that they live under regardless of whether they support or agree with their government or their laws.

                Comment

                • prazola
                  Phoronix Member
                  • May 2014
                  • 81

                  #48
                  Originally posted by hf_139 View Post
                  Those sanctions were launched 2.5 years ago.
                  Why is Linux bothering about that now? Doesn't he read the news and didn't he know about the war?
                  Will there be sanctions on Israeli maintainers in 1.5 years when the news about the genocide in Gaza reaches Linus?

                  Oh wait... i know one thing that changed:
                  The NATO changed the narrative and nobody is talking about kicking Russia out of Ukraine anymore, all the NATO countries (who murdered people in Afghanistan just 6 months before Ukraine) now want negotiations. So all the Western involvement only lead to more dead Ukrainians, since they could have gotten a peace deal already in March 2022.
                  Sure, the first peace deal. And the others the upcoming years.

                  You're doing a good job Pyotr

                  Comment

                  • aufkrawall
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2017
                    • 1600

                    #49
                    Too bad Michael allows Ruzzian or whatever troll armies in these forums. Basically ~everyone from the first page of this thread should be purged too. As a minimum.

                    Comment

                    • ahjolinna
                      Junior Member
                      • Dec 2013
                      • 23

                      #50
                      This is so stupid, also why now? the Russian sanctions has been a thing for a long while....sigh.
                      I have a feeling that the next thing what will happen is that we will soon have two major version of the kernel, the current western one and then the BRICS fork​​

                      (sarcasm) I can't wait to see all the major open source projects being split between these two factions, because that's what open source is all about ...sigh (sarcasm)

                      Comment

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