Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted

[mSparks]

This is not in fact 100 percent true.

well, it's true enough that after

https://www.rt.com/russia/563562-donbass-referendums-results-polls/

They are no longer and will never be part of ukraine again, no matter how much healthcare and road repairs us citizens forgoe to fund more terrorist activity.

All pretty much exactly the same situation now as when the Russian military assistance overthrew apartheid in Africa, with the same bullshit from the usual suspects that were salty about that.

[Panix]

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67825 does this contain fiction yes it does.


This is not in fact 100 percent true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/OHCHRThematicReportUkraineJan2014-May2016_EN.pdf

Yes this is a nice long report on it. The thousands of deaths came after the coup was complete. Massive usage of arms is after the coup is complete.

It was not an armed coup. Yes it was coup. 121 deaths for a protest the side of 400000 to 800000 is the number you expect with totally peaceful protest where a few things go wrong as they always do because a percentage of protestors will not keep stuff peaceful. Yes that the January–February 2014 coup was not a armed blood shedding coup that killed many innocent people.

The facts is the 2014 successful Coup in Ukraine was as non violence as a coup gets. Note percentage of the population that did not agree with how the 2014 coup changed things instead of following non violence themselves went down the road of violence with Russia support.

This is one of the problems of Putin he has truth mixed with fiction and we are not sure how much of this is his doing or the yes men under him.

mSparks so like it or not Putin reason for invading Ukraine is part based on fiction. Yes you have the local police records and media on the ground at the time in the 2014 coup of Ukraine that document that it was basically no major volience. May 2 in Odea and other latter events in the year those were not non violence.

Yes the attempted armed coups of 2014 end up with lots of blood shedding. Please note the word attempted coup. 2014 Ukraine you have two types of coup. The peaceful as you can get coup that changed the countries leader ship. And the attempted armed coups that lead to lots of blood shed supported by Russia because their puppet had been removed.

Yes the parties that attempted armed coups did not attempt peaceful coup because they knew they did not have the numbers. Yes note something Odea that not the capital why are you doing actions there that right to cut the black sea off this is not action to change government any more this is attempted act of war.

mSparks the more you read the kremlin stuff and proceed to fact check the more cases you find Putin saying stuff that without question is provable false. These false things would have lead to Putin giving the wrong instructions.

Yes this include believing that more Ukrainians supported Russia than what really did. Also failing to see that DPR was lead by a confirmed neo nazi so he should not have been given that person weapons. Just think about it lets say Putin had got correct information and instead of giving the DPR and the like arms put peace keepers in because the DPR and the like forces were not trustworthy due to not trying peaceful means. We would not be in this mess right now.

Putin getting false information and acting on it has been major cause of this problem.

The DPR ppl are Neo-Soviet Bolsheviks - a 'neo nazi' huh? You are reading Western propaganda nonsense and Sparks is reading Russian state media. You both sound like clowns. You both don't know what you're talking about.

[Panix]

well, it's true enough that after

https://www.rt.com/russia/563562-donbass-referendums-results-polls/

They are no longer and will never be part of ukraine again, no matter how much healthcare and road repairs us citizens forgoe to fund more terrorist activity.

All pretty much exactly the same situation now as when the Russian military assistance overthrew apartheid in Africa, with the same bullshit from the usual suspects that were salty about that.

So, your sources are RT now? The controlled Russian state media outlet? LOL! Even if ppl in Donetsk etc. - in the separatist republics that are controlling everything - media source etc. and only allowing neo-soviet sources - which they couldn't even vote to go back to Ukraine - even if that were acccurate - quoting a Russian state news site is really stupid and biased info.

But, you have gone on rambling on a topic you have little insight on. It's wild how you have no shame or embarrassment to sound totally misinformed and clueless. But, I am sure the far left western and Russian websites are giving you lots of info to parrot here.

Russia helped 'overthrow apartheid' in Africa because the prospective government were far left communists:

https://theconversation.com/how-communists-have-shaped-south-africas-history-over-100-years-165556

Wow, you are so uninformed...

[mSparks]

So, your sources are RT now?

ffs how brain dead do you need to be to think RT is a source

Leonid Pasechnik is a source
Denis Pushilin is a source
Yevgeny Balitsky is a source
Vladimir Saldo is a source
Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a source

RT is a collection of journalists who refuse to be told what sources to use by the cult of Jeffrey Epstein.

Which is why those with their own Epstein tapes are so desperate for you not to see what sources they are covering.

[Weasel]

Im not crying? life is good, business is good, flying helicopters, enjoying the sun, sea and ski season is incoming. Why should I care if a load of racist scum get offered up on a platter for target practice by some North Koreans? Your obviously paying hard cash for it, are you getting your monies worth?

I was talking about the apes in your regime.

Also, go back to school and learn to spell instead of how to handle a gun and be cannon fodder.

Bit late in the day to start calling everyone conspiracy theorists, that particular ad hominem sailed a couple of decades ago, back when people would believe the news when they told them a Saudi living in Pakistan was a good reason to attack Afghanistan to save the poppy farmers from the Taliban.

So where's your proof then?

[Panix]

ffs how brain dead do you need to be to think RT is a source

Leonid Pasechnik is a source
Denis Pushilin is a source
Yevgeny Balitsky is a source
Vladimir Saldo is a source
Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a source

RT is a collection of journalists who refuse to be told what sources to use by the cult of Jeffrey Epstein.

Which is why those with their own Epstein tapes are so desperate for you not to see what sources they are covering.

Evading and then reacting with stupid comments. Jeez.... I'm not sure - how braindead are you?

[mSparks]

Evading and then reacting with stupid comments. Jeez.... I'm not sure - how braindead are you?

do tell, what part of citing the elected officials of the regions that told Zelensky and his pedo financial backers to go fuck themselves do you think was evading?

Or is it just you have never heard the names of most of those heads of state before, that I could understand if you live in one of those fascist dictatorships everyone loaths and wants to leave.

So where's your proof then?

Tangentially, on the topic of covering the cult of jeffrey epstein, doesnt richard brandson own an island to? the US court system is also often a pretty good source

How long before that gets raided I wonder...

I mean, just to be clear who it is you two are rooting for.

[oiaohm]

well, it's true enough that after

Are you sure. I only pulled out the worst example there. I could pull out another 30 lies. The reality is Putin sent troops in based on lies. These lies are important.

You are joining the side that uses violence as their first choice.

They are no longer and will never be part of ukraine again, no matter how much healthcare and road repairs us citizens forgoe to fund more terrorist activity.

Again the lies are important the vote was only for the DPR area yet Putin is using the vote to attempt to claim complete oblast. The party he is siding up with has used violence causing the other side to use violence. Yes this means there is not going to be a quick peace. We know what this looks like because I am part Irish yes Russia ruling that section of Ukraine is going to end up in a england ruling.Ireland remember they had a referendums as well..

There is a reason why there are international laws on how referendums should be conducted that Russia did not obey in the DPR so the results absolutely cannot be trusted. The reason for the international laws is so you don't get your country stuck in a quagmire because you believe you have majority on your side when you just have less than 10 percent who used their military and corruption to get a high result that not the will of the people.

You have also missed something. mSparks look at Brexit the UK people voted for that now they are waking up that should not have because the change is no good for them. What happens when the DPR people wake up it was not a good change. Everyone hate there government at some point this is critical to remember and the DPR people have shown how a percentage of them handle this. That right these people believe in using violence to achieve ends. So as so as they start having problems with Russian provided healthcare and road repairs and so on you will have problems now targeted at Russian.

There is a reason why I would have been more likely to offer the people of the DPR if it was in change relecation with money and citizenship back into Russia to end the war this way I would not end up quagmire problem. If they find they hate Russian rule you have left somewhere for them to return to.

Yes that referendum due to be done incorrect the results truth mixed with fiction with a question how much fiction. Sorry to say if the fiction is big enough even if Ukraine gave up the land would not result in a peaceful area of Russia and will keep on consuming military resources.

All pretty much exactly the same situation now as when the Russian military assistance overthrew apartheid in Africa, with the same bullshit from the usual suspects that were salty about that.

How often in Africa has Russian military assistance created quagmire not leading to peace.

Please be more correct it was USSR assistance that end apartheid in Africa and this is critical. The guiding hand on the USSR policy to South Africa that worked was not Russian but Ukrainian the very people who did the uprising peacefully. The reality is every time a person of Russian culture has done something Africa they have screwed it up. The lies and cheats of Russian culture does not produce stable results most of the time.

Russian people have habit of taking credit for everything done by the USSR states completely ignoring that different USSR states had different cultures and different laws and this different cultures made some of these states people way better at dealing with particular problems than Russian core.

Yes it was a good thing that Russification was always failing to stick on the native Ukrainians. Successful Russification mostly likely we would still have apartheid in South Africa.

Russian fail to understand that for Russia countries long term they would be better to Ukrainization or something else like it. Ukraine culture does contain that lieing up chain of command is a bad thing and this was true even in Ukrainian SSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine

In a 1995 survey by the Ilko Kucheriv Democratic Initiatives Foundation, 42% of respondents stated that corruption "is a shameful phenomenon that has no objective grounds" while 36% chose the option that corruption is "a component of social traditions."[23] Respondents from Southern and Western Ukraine more often chose the option of corruption being "a component of social traditions" (42% and 43%). The option "a shameful phenomenon that has no objective grounds" was more often chosen by respondents in Central Ukraine (48%) and Eastern Ukraine (53%).[23]

This 1995 survey is important remember DPR is Eastern Ukraine. These people don't have a tolerance in their culture for Putin style corruption. Yes Rustication of Ukrainians makes them Putin incompatible long term due to making them anti corruption. Yes a group with likely to use violence and is likely to have issues with Putin rule because of the corruption then you had a rigged Referendum to bring them into Russia.

Basically the people at the top were not thinking these people are not Russians and these people had their own state in the USSR for a reason because they are in fact core russian culture incompatible and no matter what you do them they will remain core Russian culture incompatible . Core Russian culture need to change.

Its the same problem you run into. Its not possible to do successful Russification on Ukrainian people to have their integrate with core Russia culture. Yes even the people of the DPR long term are not going to integrate with Russia successfully while Russian culture is what it is.

Core Russia need to go though a culture transformation to reduce the corruption and lies..

More you know about this problem the more Putin has made big bad mistakes. Please note I am not saying Putin should have done nothing just the options he choose all lead to issues that are going to last for centuries if he does not change course. Big thing is failure to understand how much of what he is making choices on is lies and those lies have made it impossible for him to see the correct information so leading to making all the incorrect choices.

Yes the forces sent at first into Ukraine were sent in believing the population would be on their side resulting in losing a huge stack of equipment to the Ukrainians totally undamaged. Thank you false DPR voting data. Rigging votes is not harmless.

[oiaohm]

Although since Zelen means green in Russian, and he is always wearing that green t shirt,

mSparks there is a problem that Green shirt of Zelensky is from https://m-tac.us/ in fact every bit of clothing he has been wearing include when you see him in body armor is in m-tac. That t-shirt is a thermal undershirt. Yes basically Zelensky is standing in front of world leaders effectively in his underwear. Yes that t-shirt is what you wear under you camouflage in cold weather.

[Panix]

Are you sure. I only pulled out the worst example there. I could pull out another 30 lies. The reality is Putin sent troops in based on lies. These lies are important.

You are joining the side that uses violence as their first choice.


Again the lies are important the vote was only for the DPR area yet Putin is using the vote to attempt to claim complete oblast. The party he is siding up with has used violence causing the other side to use violence. Yes this means there is not going to be a quick peace. We know what this looks like because I am part Irish yes Russia ruling that section of Ukraine is going to end up in a england ruling.Ireland remember they had a referendums as well..

There is a reason why there are international laws on how referendums should be conducted that Russia did not obey in the DPR so the results absolutely cannot be trusted. The reason for the international laws is so you don't get your country stuck in a quagmire because you believe you have majority on your side when you just have less than 10 percent who used their military and corruption to get a high result that not the will of the people.

You have also missed something. mSparks look at Brexit the UK people voted for that now they are waking up that should not have because the change is no good for them. What happens when the DPR people wake up it was not a good change. Everyone hate there government at some point this is critical to remember and the DPR people have shown how a percentage of them handle this. That right these people believe in using violence to achieve ends. So as so as they start having problems with Russian provided healthcare and road repairs and so on you will have problems now targeted at Russian.

There is a reason why I would have been more likely to offer the people of the DPR if it was in change relecation with money and citizenship back into Russia to end the war this way I would not end up quagmire problem. If they find they hate Russian rule you have left somewhere for them to return to.

Yes that referendum due to be done incorrect the results truth mixed with fiction with a question how much fiction. Sorry to say if the fiction is big enough even if Ukraine gave up the land would not result in a peaceful area of Russia and will keep on consuming military resources.



How often in Africa has Russian military assistance created quagmire not leading to peace.

Please be more correct it was USSR assistance that end apartheid in Africa and this is critical. The guiding hand on the USSR policy to South Africa that worked was not Russian but Ukrainian the very people who did the uprising peacefully. The reality is every time a person of Russian culture has done something Africa they have screwed it up. The lies and cheats of Russian culture does not produce stable results most of the time.

Russian people have habit of taking credit for everything done by the USSR states completely ignoring that different USSR states had different cultures and different laws and this different cultures made some of these states people way better at dealing with particular problems than Russian core.

Yes it was a good thing that Russification was always failing to stick on the native Ukrainians. Successful Russification mostly likely we would still have apartheid in South Africa.

Russian fail to understand that for Russia countries long term they would be better to Ukrainization or something else like it. Ukraine culture does contain that lieing up chain of command is a bad thing and this was true even in Ukrainian SSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine

This 1995 survey is important remember DPR is Eastern Ukraine. These people don't have a tolerance in their culture for Putin style corruption. Yes Rustication of Ukrainians makes them Putin incompatible long term due to making them anti corruption. Yes a group with likely to use violence and is likely to have issues with Putin rule because of the corruption then you had a rigged Referendum to bring them into Russia.

Basically the people at the top were not thinking these people are not Russians and these people had their own state in the USSR for a reason because they are in fact core russian culture incompatible and no matter what you do them they will remain core Russian culture incompatible . Core Russian culture need to change.

Its the same problem you run into. Its not possible to do successful Russification on Ukrainian people to have their integrate with core Russia culture. Yes even the people of the DPR long term are not going to integrate with Russia successfully while Russian culture is what it is.

Core Russia need to go though a culture transformation to reduce the corruption and lies..

More you know about this problem the more Putin has made big bad mistakes. Please note I am not saying Putin should have done nothing just the options he choose all lead to issues that are going to last for centuries if he does not change course. Big thing is failure to understand how much of what he is making choices on is lies and those lies have made it impossible for him to see the correct information so leading to making all the incorrect choices.

Yes the forces sent at first into Ukraine were sent in believing the population would be on their side resulting in losing a huge stack of equipment to the Ukrainians totally undamaged. Thank you false DPR voting data. Rigging votes is not harmless.

The problem previously is that many in Eastern Ukraine wanted to have a 'unison' with Russia - culture and politics leaned more towards Russia - and those regions had the neo-soviet propaganda for years - so anything that went bad - was blamed on Ukraine. This is common sense but you can look it up (research) or ask Ukrainians especially Eastern Ukrainians (who either identify as 'Russian' or are Eastern Ukrainian but are anti-Ukrainian government - you will find many). However, after the secession or seize of these regions - the Separatists installed their own governments - de facto Russian colonies if you will- they were financed and governed by Russia or Russian entities - and if you research this as well - there was massive corruption, peculiar killings or assassinations and other crimes - more or less, you could call it rivalries between different 'Separatist' heads. The ppl in Eastern Ukraine got their own 'medicine' so to speak - as they discovered how corrupt and sinister these neo-Soviet whackjobs are.

https://theconversation.com/most-people-in-separatist-held-areas-of-donbas-prefer-reintegration-with-ukraine-new-survey-124849

They discovered the grass is not always greener - and that remaining in Ukraine is probably the 'lesser evil' side - or at least with the possibility of negotiating assistance even if they make threats/demands on Kyiv - it's probably a better situation/predicament than the chaos with Separatists/Russia - at least, some of the ppl probably concluded this? Just read the link above.

You had some good points but don't forget the conditioning that the ppl were exposed to. Your suggested solutions are pretty interesting - that's a good idea - as part of negotiation - Ukraine with the West's help - should offer those who are die-hard Neo-soviet Bolshevik types - to move (relocate to Russia) - pay for it - and then Russia could administer that. In return, Russia would back off - or you could negotiate dividing that region into two - with one side - the more 'pro-Russia' side and the other (western?) side - Ukrainian. Whatever they do - they need to find a compromise - but, that won't happen because like I said, neither side wants it.