Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted

[Vermilion]

I thought Linus being a veteran troll himself would know the difference between trolling and serious concerns..

[kernel_titan]

I'm baffled by the nativity of some. Have we not learnt anything from xz? I wonder if it crossed their minds an ill intended person could weaponize open source software or use it to spy...

Now imagine it on a global scale where a country is unequivocally guilty of aggression of a peaceful sovereign state.

Would you give people associated with such state writes to an open source project with global reach?

Linus is right. Every patch received from those maintainers would require extra careful scrutiny and it simply wouldn't scale. Every russian hardware supported could power a drone that kills civilians, as russian army repeatedly did. Neutrality in this conflict benefits the aggressor.

If it hurts the population so bad, to be stripped of so many international rights, they should deal with their tyranny issue then. Sanctions work like compound interest: over time.

You raise a valid point that they could try to sneak in malware to achieve their geopolitical aims and cause huge damages to critical infrastructure in enemy countries. But the thing is that it's not just Russia that wants to/could take advantage of it. It's every single nation-state and their intel agencies, including the US, that could engage in such activity. Applying that logic, Linux development would just stop. Even though I completely support Ukraine fighting back against Russian imperialism trying to conquer Ukrainian land (AND the US supporting Ukrainian in doing so), this preemptive removal of a supposed future threat and essentially branding all these maintainers as Russian government agents, without an iota of evidence, is not something that I personally support. This just sows a lot of distrust in ANY code in the future that comes from Russian people. More so than would be raised on code submitted by people of other nationalities.

[hkupty]

I'm usually on Linus side here, but this is absurd and stupid, what about the Israel v Palestine “war”? (more like genocide, but that beyond the point right now) Why isn't that conflict getting the same treatment?

Hamas started the conflict on October 7th, 2023. They killed 1200 civilians in a music festival and nearby cities. Israel retaliated Hamas specifically. They warned the civilians. They sent warning shots before each bomb. Hamas used civilians (both hostages and their own people) as human shield.

This is definitely not the same thing. Condemning Israel for defending themselves after hamas attacked is nothing but media-fed anti semitism. Unfortunately it resonates so well with the so called progressives and democrats because, well, the left has always been anti semitic.

[phoron]

I don't understand.

It's clear that Linus Torvalds is Finnish. It's not crystal clear, but expected, that he's against Russian aggression. It's not clear to me how being against Russian aggression relates to removing maintainers from that file (until some documentation arrives if ever, apparently). But I think Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 (and other places before and after). The maintainers removal is only happening now. So the cause seems sanctions from US, EU, G7 or whatever. He could say it's a legal requirement. If it's a political move, why didn't he do it before ? Was it illegal before the sanctions and compulsory now? And what other rules have changed ? How does the project work now ? What's the impact on the risks project participants take ?

And if "multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories" amounts to a thread with some 25 messages, I think either Russian trolls factories have lost much of its power or any moderation in that list is working extra hard.

The message amounts just to a NACK to the revert. That's some info. But it's tone deaf to a politically sensible issue and established policies. I thought Linus just had his own particular choice of language but kept a good grasp of the community dynamics. I don't think he's lost his knowledge, so he could be thinking there's not way out and just venting its frustration. Like he's not seeing a good solution on how the project works from now on...

And I thought GKH wasn't handing it well...

[dlitz]

The pro-Kremlin comments in this thread seem pretty desperate. Multiple posts from the same user and posts from brand new accounts, all condemning this without a single rational explanation as to why this is a bad thing, or misrepresenting reality in so other way.

It's the MAINTAINERS file. Not removing credit. Not refusing contributions. Just saying that to do work on Linux subsystems, you don't have to business with individuals from a widely-sanctioned country. When the war is over and Russia loses, I'm sure things will normalize as before.

[anarsoul]

It's not clear to me how being against Russian aggression relates to removing maintainers from that file (until some documentation arrives if ever, apparently).

Removed individuals work or used to work on sanctioned companies.

[kernel_titan]

There is more than enough fascist Putin trolls who jumped on it, that if anyone "raised concerns" out of other reasons, they drowned in the voices of the trolling swamp anyway.

Also, your join date indicates being a potential Putin's bot too

Fuck Putin and his imperialist war on Ukraine. I am in 100% support of Ukraine fighting against the Russians and the EU and the US supporting Ukraine in doing so.

Sure, there probably were Putin's soldiers (who probably wanted to backdoor the kernel in an XZ kinda way), but there were/are people who are genuinely concerned about the precedent this sets.

[rb777]

We have seen nothing yet... Wait til they ban Chinese contributors as well. Cold War 2.0 over this AI hype will get uglier.

[hkupty]

You raise a valid point that they could try to sneak in malware to achieve their geopolitical aims and cause huge damages to critical infrastructure in enemy countries. But the thing is that it's not just Russia that wants to/could take advantage of it. It's every single nation-state and their intel agencies, including the US, that could engage in such activity. Applying that logic, Linux development would just stop. Even though I completely support Ukraine fighting back against Russian imperialism trying to conquer Ukrainian land (AND the US supporting Ukrainian in doing so), this preemptive removal of a supposed future threat and essentially branding all these maintainers as Russian government agents, without an iota of evidence, is not something that I personally support. This just sows a lot of distrust in ANY code in the future that comes from Russian people. More so than would be raised on code submitted by people of other nationalities.

I see your point and it makes some sense, but at the same time, as others have posted, north Korea currently faces a similar position in worlds geopolitics (and it's no surprise that open source is under the same geopolitical veil) and with Russia stretching their ties with north Korea (with their soldiers boasting about north Korean troops coming to the battlefield even) it's not hard to see Russia getting the same treatment.


I agree that it is an escalation, but three years into the war, those who oppose should have had their ties with Russia cut already. Sporting a .ru email now is likely a sign that you aren't so opposed to the aggression, at least at first glance.

[Volta]

Hamas started the conflict on October 7th, 2023. They killed 1200 civilians in a music festival and nearby cities. Israel retaliated Hamas specifically. They warned the civilians. They sent warning shots before each bomb. Hamas used civilians (both hostages and their own people) as human shield.

This is definitely not the same thing. Condemning Israel for defending themselves after hamas attacked is nothing but media-fed anti semitism. Unfortunately it resonates so well with the so called progressives and democrats because, well, the left has always been anti semitic.

Blatant lies! Israel is aggressor there. How many civilians israel killed in silent attacks? Hundreds of thousands.