Bcachefs Fixes Pull Once Again Frustrates Linus Torvalds - Two Choices Offered

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  • sdack
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 1724

    #61
    Torvalds is at fault here. Sure, he is right about the technical problems, but as the leader of the kernel project should he not waste his time with beginners. Some beginners just need more time, have learning difficulties, private problems, disorders, lack social skills, etc. and just cannot deliver the quality and skill required. Torvalds needs to see his own time as valuable and not waste it on running a kindergarten. He is obviously not getting happy with it, but only more frustrated. It is time he injects an intermediate maintainer to handle such cases. Someone with training in psychology for example and who is mentally prepared to take on the burden of handling misfits.

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    • Quackdoc
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2020
      • 5063

      #62
      Originally posted by reavertm View Post
      So.. what is bcachefs appeal, considering 10+ other battle-tested filesystems supported in kernel already? Why would anyone write new filesystem these days and say "why don't you try to write filesystem" as if whole world was waiting in patience for it? Seriously.
      no existing filesystem in kernel has good performance, features, and reliability, bcachefs is promising to deliver both, currently it's doing a fairly good job. the actual filesystem itself is prone to outages, but not once have I hit a bug that causes data loss, which is quite promissing, Performance wise it's ok, I find it usually a bit better then btrfs. Feature wise, it has a feature increase over ext4, but not quite and btrfs/zfs levels, though the features are comming

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      • varikonniemi
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 1102

        #63
        First time where i actually agree that kent is being completely unprofessional. Why does he have to make everything into drama? And when being called out, he pours gasoline onto the fire. What good is funding if the user of the funds is unable to do team work?

        I don't see a problem with the churn and large changes going in constantly, as long as they don't break the build for others, because bcachefs itself is experimental. But it happened. It should have been the point where he stop and reconsider his model. And at the very least get CI that covers all archs.
        Last edited by varikonniemi; 06 October 2024, 06:13 AM.

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        • mixov
          Junior Member
          • Sep 2024
          • 18

          #64
          Originally posted by sdack View Post
          It is time he injects an intermediate maintainer to handle such cases. Someone with training in psychology for example and who is mentally prepared to take on the burden of handling misfits.
          This seems like the best solution. Kent won't need to change his personality and Linus gets to work with someone who plays nice. Although I wouldn't say the 'liaison' should be someone appointed by Linus but rather someone from Kent's team or a neutral third party.

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          • DanL
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 3122

            #65
            Originally posted by sdack View Post
            Torvalds is at fault here.
            If he's at fault of anything here, it's being too optimistic for bcachefs. If he was swifter with kicking it out or never gave it a chance, folks would be complaining about that. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't..

            It is time he injects an intermediate maintainer to handle such cases.
            No, it is time bcachefs gets a liaison since it's obvious Kent does not respect the kernel release process. I would say "or understands the process", but it's obvious he does understand, and doesn't think it's appropriate for a relatively young filesystem. And that's fine, but then go do your own thing until the system matures, instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole.

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            • hf_139
              Senior Member
              • May 2023
              • 335

              #66
              It's nice to get the drama updates from LKML.
              But why do we never get drama updates from GNOME?

              Like when the one foundation board member Gnomie got kicked out of the whole project, we didn't get an article. When the one Gnome got kicked out of freedesktop.org, afaik we also didn't get one (i might be wrong on this one).

              The Gnome gitlab is a treasure trove of drama and incompetent cancerous developers (mostly employed by RedHat).
              You are missing out on lots of fun.

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              • botipua22
                Phoronix Member
                • Jul 2023
                • 69

                #67
                overstreet is being bit of a kent. he needs to listen to linus or do this own thing. bcachefs looks promising but it's not a revolutionary improvement over existing filesystems. most linux users will continue to be just fine using ext4 or btrfs.

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                • Alexmitter
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2019
                  • 1132

                  #68
                  Originally posted by erniv2 View Post

                  But that does not give Linus the right to threaten (i´ll just axe bcachefs cause you piss me off), he has the right to just nak that pull but not the right to embress a developer that put so much thaught into a new filesystem that many pepole eagerly want to succeed.
                  Maybe people should understand that Kent isn't some miracle kid and bcachefs isn't some miracle FS.
                  Hes a egoistic one man show who build a filesystem ontop of the existing bcache code whos main feature is "at least not btrfs" to those who still are unable to accept that btrfs has its struggles in the beginning but is state now a rock solid FS for all the features advertised as rock solid.

                  No one wants to axe bcachefs, it won't die just because it again has to live outside mainline. It just means that Kent will be able to do whatever he wants. No testing, direct merging, directly pushing his trash out the door. And Linus can go back to what he does well, steer the kernel for excellence.

                  Comment

                  • macemoneta
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 258

                    #69
                    Originally posted by sdack View Post
                    Torvalds is at fault here. Sure, he is right about the technical problems, but as the leader of the kernel project should he not waste his time with beginners. Some beginners just need more time, have learning difficulties, private problems, disorders, lack social skills, etc. and just cannot deliver the quality and skill required. Torvalds needs to see his own time as valuable and not waste it on running a kindergarten. He is obviously not getting happy with it, but only more frustrated. It is time he injects an intermediate maintainer to handle such cases. Someone with training in psychology for example and who is mentally prepared to take on the burden of handling misfits.
                    Getting new developers onboard is just as much a project's work as delivering code. The Linux kernel has thousands of developers, and they all started somewhere. Some just take longer to acclimate to playing well with others, while some never do. That you don't see drama from the vast majority is proof of how well the development engine works when people follow the process.

                    Comment

                    • Alexmitter
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2019
                      • 1132

                      #70
                      Originally posted by hf_139 View Post
                      It's nice to get the drama updates from LKML.
                      But why do we never get drama updates from GNOME?

                      Like when the one foundation board member Gnomie got kicked out of the whole project, we didn't get an article. When the one Gnome got kicked out of freedesktop.org, afaik we also didn't get one (i might be wrong on this one).

                      The Gnome gitlab is a treasure trove of drama and incompetent cancerous developers (mostly employed by RedHat).
                      You are missing out on lots of fun.
                      What a sad little post of yours. Gnome gonna die any moment, you just need to believe.

                      Comment

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