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  • Bill Michael will leave the top City firm at the end of the month following the uproar sparked by his comments on a Zoom call on Monday.

    Okay, end of discussion. Back to the Gnome Foundation topic - I am sure ppl are getting tired of reading your inane posts and I should stop replying, I know.

    Comment



    • Memo to companies: Go ahead and cancel your DEI programs. That’s more or less the message of a recent report commissioned by the U.K. government finding that diversity, equity and inclusion in the workplace isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.​
      I like to say how they say more or less here. Yes go find report and read
      An employment tribunal ruled Cheshire Police had used "positive action" against Matthew Furlong.

      2019 we have this. This triggers a change in training.
      2022 is starts appearing in workplaces and start of UK government looking into it.
      2024 the report handed down.

      The memo is not more or less this is the USA media down playing what the report says. The report in fact reads in short form the following "Companies will cancel their company DEI programs because they cannot legally justify them and Companies will restrict yourself to DEI as defined by law failure to-do will result in prosecution for discrimination under the law."

      Fake DEI is ending in the UK. We are at the start of the chain of events in the USA that could lead to fake DEI ending USA as well. Fake DEI nuked out of existence by the UK government does not mean the law form of DEI goes away in the UK.

      The first link in the chain is a successful prosecution for discrimination against a majority. This chain of events has played out in more than 1 country UK is just the most recent to get though the chain of events. Its simple a matter of time until those pushing fake DEI find the courts/government pulling the rug out from under them.

      The real DEI defined in law in fact destroys the fake DEI companies have been doing. I really wish the legal system was not such a slow moving beast on these things.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
        microcode the USA courts have ruled that what you call the American managerial jargon define if Equity is not the USA courts define of Equity and is in fact illegal define that USA management need to be pulled though the USA courts for using like what has already happened in the UK Management in UK courts.
        In both the U.S. and the UK, the biggest offenders don't care that it's illegal, they just break the law. Even (or perhaps especially) the various high and low governments of both places openly discriminate based on race and sex to this day.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by microcode View Post
          In both the U.S. and the UK, the biggest offenders don't care that it's illegal, they just break the law. Even (or perhaps especially) the various high and low governments of both places openly discriminate based on race and sex to this day.
          Really this not seeing the long term history. There is a long term process to law application inside companies.

          Companies don't work by what is written in the law instead work from what has been prosecuted. They see a company prosecuted for miss treatment of particular race so then they get more of that race can pretend they are not breaking the law. This is how companies work. You can go back to slavery where companies were prosecuted for miss treatment of slaves the result was more companies wanted slaves and miss treating their full paid workers. This behavior changed when companies were prosecuted for miss treatment of normal workers as well.

          There is a repeating pattern here predates DEI.

          Companies care about what will effect their bottom line. Seeing other companies fined and prosecuted for things.

          History tells slavery tells us this is a century long process that require a chain of events to happen. Yes remember there was argument that people were enslaved for their own good.

          The law defined DEI is what we need to get to. We need to be calling companies out with the fake DEI programs as being illegal and be pushing them to be prosecuted. What written in law you are absolute right companies don't care about it.

          Work place health and safety things only are done by businesses to avoid possibility of being prosecuted because other parties have already been prosecuted. Yes this repeating trend.

          Does not matter if it Work place health and safety, slaves, DEI... companies by their nature will do it work until they see other companies prosecuted. Yes companies will attempt to create fake items to make themselves appear better than the competition. Do not mix up fake items for real. Tesla self driving is a good recent fake that killed people yet Tesla has not been prosecuted for this so expect more self driving human killing items.

          DEI in law is right. Problem is the DEI in law is not be prosecuted enough to make what it really means clearly understood to companies. Clearly understood to companies do don't do this right expect to lose lots money from your bottom line so not be competitive against your competition.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oleid View Post
            ...
            So, you are obviously trolling, and I am not going to lay out all the obvious reasons why a person on a wheelchair is not physically capable of being a cop, a firefighter, a paramedic or even a tow truck driver.

            Also, the thought that you think a person with William's Syndrome and Epilepsy can be a secret service agent is just so silly it hurts,

            Comment


            • Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
              So, you are obviously trolling, and I am not going to lay out all the obvious reasons why a person on a wheelchair is not physically capable of being a cop, a firefighter, a paramedic or even a tow truck driver.


              sophisticles This is absolutely not a black and white as what you think. Note link above is a light duty firefighter. Being in a wheelchair does not mean person cannot do paperwork or be instructor in charge of training with firefighters.

              A person in a wheelchair is able to be a light duty cop, firefighter or paramedic. I don't know how you do a light duty tow truck driver.

              Yes paramedic light duty running phones, coms and keeping track of paper work and supplies. Yes talking a person though how to handle victim over phone does not require legs.

              Light duty cops do finical crimes and items like that.

              There is a problem that happens if your cops, firefighter, paramedics have no light duty staff this is the stations becoming unmanned due to all the able bodies going out in the field due to an event this results in not being able handle calls to keep track of the new events happening and proceed to prioritize.

              Like I am not saying a person in wheelchair should be a full duty cop, firefighter or paramedic. Also a light duty officer is paid less than a full duty.

              sophisticles the reality as long as you mentally sane and able to use your arms and on legs or wheels move around office you can be a light duty cop, firefighter or paramedic. Its obvious person in wheelchair cannot be a full duty cop, firefighter or paramedic.

              There is issue that when people think of cops, firefighters and paramedics they only think of the full duty version. Over 1/4 of cops, firefighters and paramedics are light duty and only 1/10 people are in wheelchairs. Lot of people in wheelchairs cannot be light duty cops, firefighters and paramedics because they cannot use their arms or have some mental impairment stopping them.. Yes out of the 1/10 in wheelchairs about half of those are excluded due to other conditions from light duty but this is the other conditions not the wheelchair. Yes a person without arms but with legs cannot be a light duty cops, firefighters and paramedics because they don't meet the arm functionality requirement. Like it not the things that block a person from being a light duty cops, firefighters and paramedics have nothing to-do with the wheelchair because having those conditions and being able to walk would still equal person not being able to be cops, firefighters and paramedics.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

                So, you are obviously trolling, and I am not going to lay out all the obvious reasons why a person on a wheelchair is not physically capable of being a cop, a firefighter, a paramedic or even a tow truck driver.
                Oh, please do.
                As stated in this thread:
                • Being a cop also means lots of desk work. Would you fire a cup once they are injured in service?
                • Same goes for fire fighter
                • And for being able to drive you don't need legs. There are wheelchair capable cars

                Also, the thought that you think a person with William's Syndrome and Epilepsy can be a secret service agent is just so silly it hurts,
                The Federal Bureau of Investigations does not have a policy restricting the employment of people with epilepsy or a medical history of seizures. Each applicant's fitness for duty is reviewed on an individual basis by medical staff as required by Section 501 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. FBI applicants must complete an application form, written examination, interview process, background check, polygraph test and medical exam. The medical exam is administered after the candidate successfully completes all other tests and has received a conditional offer of employment.

                Comment


                • sophisticles Are you waking up the dead?
                  I'll write one answer but not more.

                  Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                  So, you are obviously trolling, and I am not going to lay out all the obvious reasons why a person on a wheelchair is not physically capable [...]
                  Oh, please do.
                  As stated in this thread:
                  • Being a cop also means lots of desk work. Would you fire a cup once they are injured in service?
                  • Same goes for fire fighter
                  • And for being able to drive you don't need legs. There are wheelchair capable cars/trucks


                  Clearly, there are limitations of what a person in a wheelchair can to at certain jobs. But like I said before: as long as the person can perform all the required tasks there is no reason not to employ them.

                  Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
                  [...] babbling about secret service and epilepsy
                  The Federal Bureau of Investigations does not have a policy restricting the employment of people with epilepsy or a medical history of seizures. Each applicant's fitness for duty is reviewed on an individual basis by medical staff as required by Section 501 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. FBI applicants must complete an application form, written examination, interview process, background check, polygraph test and medical exam. The medical exam is administered after the candidate successfully completes all other tests and has received a conditional offer of employment.
                  Last edited by oleid; 03 June 2024, 11:57 PM. Reason: recover formatting

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oleid View Post
                    sophisticles Are you waking up the dead?
                    I'll write one answer but not more.



                    Oh, please do.
                    As stated in this thread:
                    • Being a cop also means lots of desk work. Would you fire a cup once they are injured in service?
                    • Same goes for fire fighter
                    • And for being able to drive you don't need legs. There are wheelchair capable cars/trucks


                    Clearly, there are limitations of what a person in a wheelchair can to at certain jobs. But like I said before: as long as the person can perform all the required tasks there is no reason not to employ them.



                    https://www.epilepsy.com/lifestyle/employment/fbi-agent
                    The other guy is not technically wrong - you're just being an a$$. Field work is way different than office work.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                      The other guy is not technically wrong - you're just being an a$$. Field work is way different than office work.
                      He is technically wrong.

                      Cops, a firefighters and a paramedics who is light duties/office work only other than the physical parts they cannot do they have to be just as qualified as those who can do field work. Yes a paramedic in a wheelchair has to be able to perform CPR, do all the bandaging, be qualified to do the drug application and so on.

                      A cop in a wheelchair still has to go to range and be firearm qualified. Firefighters in wheelchairs still have to take part in training activities normally as the injured victim stand in.

                      Remember office work only/light duty cops, firefighters and a paramedics get paid less. Even that on paper office work only/light duty cops, a firefighters and a paramedics are more qualified in most cases than those doing field work/full duty.

                      Something important light duty Cops, firefighters and a paramedics have to be able to instruct an off the street person picked basically at random to perform the tasks they cannot perform safely. Light duty Cops, firefighters and paramedics have to be instructors.

                      O boy have I seen more than a few new able body cops, firefighters and paramedics be shocked to find out they have disqualified from field work because they have insulted their instructor who was missing a leg so is not allowed to-do field work. Yes there are a lot of cases where the person who decides what cop/firefighter/paramedic can be in the field is the disabled one in the station. Yes got disabled in the path of work it very important to teach this on to the new personal so they don't repeat the same mistake.

                      Cops, firefighters and a paramedics for along time have valued experience disabled person can bring.

                      If the police, fire or ambulance group is deploying their light duty offices there is something really wrong but something people are not aware of is that the last resort is deploy all offices to the field including the light duty ones. This is why the light duty offices training even for one in wheelchair is not done lightly.

                      Yes by the time police, fire or ambulance need to deploy light duty the number of personal in light duty will not be enough to cover the disaster in most cases. This is why light duty are instructors they are do force multiply themselves by in the field training any able body they can to plug the gaps.

                      Panix this is the problem. light duty cops, firefighters and a paramedics​ fill an important role the role does not require totally able body but does require quite a bit of situational awareness.

                      A paramedic light duty in a wheelchair is expected to be able to instruct a team of 8 unqualified civilians if they are deployed to the field where a full duty paramedic is only expected to be able to instruct at max 3 unqualified civilians. Lets just say being a light duty paramedic is not a simple thing to be.

                      Yes the full duty are deployed most commonly to the field. If you see light duty field with cops, firefighters and paramedics deployed something has gone really wrong this is why they have to be such highly skilled instructors at that point single person head count increase is really not going to do anything for the level of disaster that will cause them to be field deployed.

                      Panix the field work thing you are also wrong on. Light duty are expect if the disaster is bad enough to perform field work in instructor way to force multiply by in field training civilians to fill gaps. General day to day you are not needing to deploy the personal for force multiply from civilians.

                      Light duty and full duty cops, firefighters and a paramedics have different roles when field deployed.

                      In a police, fire or ambulance station you have 3 groups types of personal.
                      1) civilian these are not qualified to be sent in the field without a light duty or full duty. These are just paper pushers and not field qualified.
                      2) full duty these are able body these are day to day used.
                      3) light duty these are normally office bound but still highly qualified and instructors these are deployed at last option to field. These need to be able to force multiply as in train civilians in field to rapidly increase numbers.

                      Think about it something goes wrong large number of you full duty get hurt if your full duty were you all your instructors how would you train the new batch.

                      Light duty and full duty are both field qualified. Yes the presume that there is no such thing as a wheelchair cop, firefighter or paramedic that could be field deployed is wrong. If you are seeing a wheelchair cop, firefighter or paramedic field deployed things have really gone wrong and you better be listening to instructions if you want to live.

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