Bcachefs Looks Like It Won't Make It For Linux 6.6

[nadir]

Maybe but why should we burden very rare seeked out individuals that are geniuses, and burden them with such crap? And in this hostile abusive way, RTFM style just with changing rules or people not answering emails in time.

This qualities he brings are rare, so people around him should try to make it easier for him not harder like they apparently do.

Him having a existential crisis contemplating adding it to the kernel at all, hurts Linux users more than him. Even if he overcomes everything, he is more burned out the product will have worse quality, because of this interaction that is without a doubt.

Nobody is "burdening" him. No sudden requirements. The steps he missed are so basic that people didn't even check exactly because they assumed somebody as experienced as him wouldn't miss them.

Merging code, especially a whole filesystem, is also not about just dumping it in the kernel. It has to interact with other parts and other people. If both the code and the person behind it don't mesh with the rest of the system, it's kinda useless.

Him having an existential crisis and contemplating not merging already is actually a good indicator he wouldn't be a good citizen.

People in some fields, especially certain parts of programming, have this idea that work gets done by unique geniuses that should be accommodated by us peons.

Instead; the collaborative effort of a group of average programmers that work consistently, together, is much more productive, especially long term.

And because you have to work with people and because they deserve your respect and kindness, you have to treat them with respect and kindness. This respect also includes respecting the systems those people are working under.

[cmsigler]

You know, as much as I want this to move forward for testing and ultimate success, if there really is only one major/involved developer.... Maybe it's good for it to stall for the time being? The code base relentlessly moves on, but it won't become obsolete overnight.

If Kent needs time off, no problem. Everyone does occasionally. It's healthy. But without another competent devel to take the lead when Kent can't, what's going to happen when it's mainlined? (Obv. not an original thought....)

If this really is a promising project, it will have value to involved individuals or businesses who will start to step up. Has anyone approached Kent to offer a hand? Has help offered been kept at a distance?

[rommyappus]

I don't understand why the people is dramatizing the situation. Nobody would be able to add a filesystem without a pull from the inside the kernel folks. I think that there is some interest to merge the Kent work. But it is to Kent to simplify the process.
Why ? Because from one side there is an interesting fs that HAS TO prove to be good; from the other side there is a project that is deployed in billion of devices and to which it is requested to provide some guarantee to the stakeholders. So it is natural a conservative approach from the Linux folks.

Everywhere it is written that contributing to the kernel is not an easy task. Kent was not the first and will be not the last people that get frustrated by this process. But if he is giving up when is facing simple human relationship "problem", what if there is be a bigger problem (like finding trade off between performance, backward compatibility, security....)

Finally, bcachefs is in development from about 10years; I don't think that it does matter if it is merged now, tomorrow or the next year.

I feel like he could use a mentor with kernel development to help shepherd him through the upstreaming process. If he's not familiar with that process I can see why it feels like unnecessary red tape, but if he could anticipate what requirements are and properly follow them it changes the perception of that being red tape quite a lot.

as someone who's never been very good at that sort of thing, I sympathize.

[Jakobson]

I don't understand why the people is dramatizing the situation. Nobody would be able to add a filesystem without a pull from the inside the kernel folks. I think that there is some interest to merge the Kent work. But it is to Kent to simplify the process.

Similar challenges were also with WireGuard witch touched both net and crypto subsystems. Where was bikeshedding with Zinc, too many patches at once etc.

[PuckPoltergeist]

I feel like he could use a mentor with kernel development to help shepherd him through the upstreaming process. If he's not familiar with that process I can see why it feels like unnecessary red tape, but if he could anticipate what requirements are and properly follow them it changes the perception of that being red tape quite a lot.

as someone who's never been very good at that sort of thing, I sympathize.

Kent is main developer and maintainer of bcache. He should be familiar with the process of kernel development and upstreaming.

[timofonic]

Similar challenges were also with WireGuard witch touched both net and crypto subsystems. Where was bikeshedding with Zinc, too many patches at once etc.

But WireGuard had no the same situation.

Despite Kent should be more strategic, there's something weird in VFS subsystem. Corporate pressure?

[jacob]

What even are the real (and I mean *real*) advantages of Bcachefs over Btrfs?

I think Bcachefs supports encryption, so that would be an advantage.

[Errinwright]

You know, as much as I want this to move forward for testing and ultimate success, if there really is only one major/involved developer.... Maybe it's good for it to stall for the time being? The code base relentlessly moves on, but it won't become obsolete overnight.

If Kent needs time off, no problem. Everyone does occasionally. It's healthy. But without another competent devel to take the lead when Kent can't, what's going to happen when it's mainlined? (Obv. not an original thought....)

If this really is a promising project, it will have value to involved individuals or businesses who will start to step up. Has anyone approached Kent to offer a hand? Has help offered been kept at a distance?

He was in the process of bringing on co-maintaners up untill yesterday when the project was placed on hold/freeze.

[rommyappus]

Kent is main developer and maintainer of bcache. He should be familiar with the process of kernel development and upstreaming.

Maybe I missed something but he's never upstreamed or maintained a part of the kernel module right? he's just been working on his own modifications that people then make and compile on their own? just knowing how to merge code with git and compiliing it is nowhere near the process of working with people to get your code merged in. One is technical know how. the other is how to successfully work with an organization to keep things running smoothly

[PuckPoltergeist]

Maybe I missed something but he's never upstreamed or maintained a part of the kernel module right? he's just been working on his own modifications that people then make and compile on their own? just knowing how to merge code with git and compiliing it is nowhere near the process of working with people to get your code merged in. One is technical know how. the other is how to successfully work with an organization to keep things running smoothly

Bcache, not bcachefs! Bcache is already upstreamed and the foundation of bcachefs.