Linux Kernel Networking Driver Development Impacted By Russian Sanctions

[Anux]

Do you see Germans complaining about Russia/France or Japan complaining about USA because of WW2?

I don't care which country complains about what, I'm a grown up and I complain about things that I think are going massivley wrong. Just state if you don't like to discuss things that are uncomfortable for you or even better don't read it in the first place.

(Japan had a freaking atomic bomb dropped on it, if anyone should be complaining it should be them, what NATO did in Serbia was in perspective nothing).

Damn you're rotten. The atomic bombs where a horrific crime on humanity and I'm pretty sure that there are Japanese complainig about it (they still suffer from malformations). Those bombs were thrown on civil towns not military stuff.

Stop being salty, grown up and move on, like the Germans and Japanese did.

You seem to assume more than you know, I'm german and we like to complain.

Load of BS. America is not trying to wipe its neighbour out, using war crimes listed in Geneva Conventions as a "checklist what we should do?'

Are we talking about the same Geneva Conventions that would forbid killing people with drohnes per double strike in a non war Country without giving them a chance to defend themselfs juristically? Or that would forbid declaring war with made up justifications? Or throwing napalm on innocents? Or having torture prisons in Guntanamo?

Stop justifying war, because you are the reason war exists!

Huawei was also blocked, they even illegally arrested its CEO in Canada.
...

No need to tell me, I already know. It was just a sarcastic comment.

[tuxd3v]

It is not like that. Russians should be able to express their will in fair elections. Those who organize election should respect the will of Russians. But they don't! And that's it. And part of the nation could be and I'm pretty sure will be nationalists and maybe they will win sometimes but they should be prepared to give power back because they are not the only source of truth.

Yes it is.Only when you respect some population, you can understand their grievances, and their problems.

They do have free elections for 30 years now.
The thing is that they found a really god President in 2000s, and don't let him go!Because they passed hell in the 90s, with the American supported Boris Yeltsin.
Even Times magazine bragged about it, at the time.

And their Government managed to raise the country from the ground, and was able to give good standards of living to their people.
And that makes us angry, because we don't want them with good living standards.

You just need to see how we attacked the Russians living in EU, how we stole their money, their houses, their yachts, their wealth...like we have done to the Jews in the 30s/40s.
Does you know that EU stole 300 billion dollars assets, of the Russian state?
Yes you know, of course, everybody know, its public!

I think new generations more and more realize what the problem really is. New generations and all of those who don't accept what happens should be proud of their country. Being able to make a change after time of exploitation can make them proud.

When you have murderers, they don't necessary deserve to be respected.

Why do you insist in the propaganda..
Look Societies change over the time, but they need to change freely, accordingly with their Religion/Culture, etc.
In any case they will always protect their own interests...you need to understand that, and Respect them.

I understand that we in EU need Russian energy, and we want to take over Russia..but that is not going to happen.
Look you need to set your requirements accordingly with the reality, otherwise you will get frustrated for not achieving the goals you have previously dreamed with.

The official version of history is full of gaps, especially when you terror and kill your own citizens and do everything to cover it.

As far as I can tell, Russia sent a small part of their army to donbass exactly to protect them, not to kill them.
On the other side, we helped Ukraine create a new NATO standards army with the exact purpose to attack that oppressed peoples.

Now you tell me who is killing who..
To find what is true and what is false you need to check both sides of history, but for that of course you need to respect both parts, otherwise it will not work.

Everything we touch, turns into chaos, and destruction, you just think about it, Iraq,Afghanistan,Libya,Syria, and the list goes on, we killed millions of innocent lives, and yet here you are pretending to have the truth on your side, and pointing fingers to others, and calling the others "killers"..
80 years after Russia loosing 27 million at our hands...we are sending weapons to kill Russians again.This is a cycle..

With that type of behaviour, nothing will change, and we will have always fighting going on in the world,and people dying as a consequence.. so sad.
EU populations are not capable to respect others, we feel ourselves as the supreme race.
Its a huge flaw that we have, and I don't see any efforts to curb that tendency.

On the other side you have China, a country with maturity, that reads both sides of the history, understand them, and later come with solutions for the problem.
Asia is indeed more advanced that us in that matters.

I only wish we could be fixed.

[mdedetrich]

I don't care which country complains about what, I'm a grown up and I complain about things that I think are going massivley wrong. Just state if you don't like to discuss things that are uncomfortable for you or even better don't read it in the first place.


Damn you're rotten. The atomic bombs where a horrific crime on humanity and I'm pretty sure that there are Japanese complainig about it (they still suffer from malformations). Those bombs were thrown on civil towns not military stuff.

Way to go on completely missing the point I was making. Of course what NATO did was tragic in Serbia but

1. Solving these problems are never easy/nice, but thats what happens as a consequence of doing ethnic genocide. Unfortunately Slovodan Milisovoic who was an ultra far right nationalist didn't constructively solve the problem, instead he continued to do war crimes. Let me remind you that what NATO did was a last resort that was done many years after the worst of what happened.
2. The point of bringing up Japan was to put things into perspective. In the case of Yugoslavia, what Slovodan Milisovoic did to his own country was much much much worse than what NATO did. If you care what happened in you country along with what NATO did and you want to be objective/impartial, you would have a far bigger problem with what Slovodan Milosovic did and yet I don't here Serbs denouncing him to the same level that Germans denounce Hitler, you see the difference here?

The point here is that your consistent complaining NATO in this specific case completely misses the point and the entire context of what happened. People that complain about this incident just appear to be salty Serb's who rather than accepting that what a government did in their government was terrible and move on, instead hyperfocus on this specific incident largely because of populist/anti-west+nato/pro-russia reasons. The fact that its wrong is besides the point, because it was a far lesser "wrong" compared to the massive "wrong" that your government was doing at the time something that a large part of your population conveniently ignores.

[ququk]

@tuxd3v, It is absoutely clear to me that we will never ever agree.

Do you really hope I'll ever respect that these Russian authorities are killing opposition, and killing political rivals and will recognize it is part of Russian culture maybe!? Dealing people with brutal force is part of Russian culture maybe, too!? Not killing your brothers is incompatible with which religion?!

They do have free elections for 30 years now.

This is the facade of elections and nothing else.

Why do you think rivals of Putin are being eliminated? They are recognized as threat to the status quo of exploiting others with brutal force and brainwashing Russian people in the background. Brainwashing because Russians are actually manipulated to support their opressors against their own interest.

The thing is that they found a really god President in 2000s, and don't let him go!Because they passed hell in the 90s, with the American supported Boris Yeltsin.
Even Times magazine bragged about it, at the time.

And Putin has imperialistic resentiments are in mind. What was normal in times of Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire when slavery was part of live, should not be acceptable in XXI century, when we know slavery is not nessesary evil to run a country.

Russians deserve better than sb that feed primitive instincts. It's a shame that oposition is phisically eliminated by FSB.

You just need to see how we attacked the Russians living in EU, how we stole their money, their houses, their yachts, their wealth...like we have done to the Jews in the 30s/40s.
Does you know that EU stole 300 billion dollars assets, of the Russian state?
Yes you know, of course, everybody know, its public!

There are actions, and there are consequences. In general it is not unsual to secure money taken from crimes. Actually there is idea to give it to Ukrainians. It is fair to assume it is money taken from exploiting people, from supporters of the establishment. If there are people not supporting these Russian authorities and they lost something, they can go to court, sue these actions, and win as judges outside of your scope actually look for circumstances. And there is 2nd instance when better judges seat and they really follow rules not the prejudices. Judical system is also sth that need to change in Russia.

understand that we in EU need Russian energy, and we want to take over Russia..but that is not going to happen.
Look you need to set your requirements accordingly with the reality, otherwise you will get frustrated for not achieving the goals you have previously dreamed with.

You understand nothing if you think that anyone wants to take over Russia and they look for excuse. You must think like that because these so called Russian authorities would do exactly that using FSB. Russian belongs to Russians. Murderers should not attempt to run a country.

And it wasn't easy decision to make being dependent on resouces from Russia. It is unthinkable for you but it was 100% moral decision not to support war, even if resources from Russia were economicaly cheaper.

As far as I can tell, Russia sent a small part of their army to donbass exactly to protect them, not to kill them.
On the other side, we helped Ukraine create a new NATO standards army with the exact purpose to attack that oppressed peoples.

You helped to unite Ukraine against clear aggressor. That's not the success you could expect. But that's how it works when you're have never enough of new territory.

With that type of behaviour, nothing will change, and we will have always fighting going on in the world,and people dying as a consequence.. so sad.

It doesn't sound like you care at all.

[Anux]

Way to go on completely missing the point I was making. Of course what NATO did was tragic in Serbia but
Solving these problems are never easy/nice, but thats what happens as a consequence of doing ethnic genocide. Unfortunately Slovodan Milisovoic who was an ultra far right nationalist didn't constructively solve the problem, instead he continued to do war crimes. Let me remind you that what NATO did was a last resort that was done many years after the worst of what happened.

I responded to someone (maybe you?) who claimed, NATO was a defense pact. And just debunked it as beeing a lie. Every millitary action outside your borders is an attack. Maybe it was nessesary to stop Milisovoic but the winner writes the history and we only hear the propaganda from NATO states. If you don't accept it beeing a war and instead call it humanitarian aid (damn that's a rotten twist) you can't judge the Russians for playing the humanitatian aid card against ukrain nazis. BTW those nazi groups exist and were regularily in the news until Russia started the war, now no one believes it anymore. I also have no illusions about Russia beeing a good guy, they use the exact same tactics and propaganda as the rest.

The point of bringing up Japan was to put things into perspective. In the case of Yugoslavia, what Slovodan Milisovoic did to his own country was much much much worse than what NATO did.

The problem with "much, much worse" is that it's easy to justify any war, your propaganda machine just has to spin the right story.

If you care what happened in you country along with what NATO did and you want to be objective/impartial

? I'm not sure what you mean with that?

and yet I don't here Serbs denouncing him to the same level that Germans denounce Hitler, you see the difference here?

Yeah maybe what is told issn't the truth but propaganda to hide the real reasons for the intervention. Wouldn't be the first time and also not the last.

just appear to be salty Serb's who rather than accepting that what a government did in their government was terrible and move on

Yeah you said it "appear" not "are". They probably know best what happend in their country vs. someone just listening to NATO propaganda.

NATO is not some saint world police that saves all the helpless. All partys that belong to NATO have a long history in taking part in every war around the world be it either by direct intervention, direct declaration of war with lies as excuse or just delivering weapons to both sides.
Just take a look were the most money flows before the war and then after and you have a pretty good understanding of who profited from the war. It helps you see through propaganda.

Or do you belive that russians attacked their own troups on a atomic power plant or that the pipelines were destroyed by some hobby terrorists that left their passports? Those are dumb propaganda lies from US agencys, the same that lied about weapons of mass destructions and found the passports of the 911 terrorists unharmed on the ground on day 1.
We may never know what happened in those cases but atleast we know what didn't happen and what those agencys want us to believe.

[ququk]

I recognize "history is always written by the winners" mindset is a thought trap. Those who initiate unprovoked wars believe exactly like that, that's why they do it in the first place, and that's insane.
I see it like that: you may think that "history is always written by the winners", but in the long run it will turn against you.

[Anux]

I recognize "history is always written by the winners" mindset is a thought trap. Those who initiate unprovoked wars believe exactly like that, that's why they do it in the first place, and that's insane.

Exactly!

I see it like that: you may think that "history is always written by the winners", but in the long run it will turn against you.

I don't see any of that, atleast for 100 years it's working really well. How long is this run?

[ququk]

Sooner or later. Depends on ex. how big appetite you have. When you try to dominate with brutal force, you can expect uprisings, you can expect external intervension in some cases. When you want to rule without self-limitations being threat for more and more, you will have coalition of more and more enemies.
Obviously it doesn't work automatically as part of laws of physics. Sometimes you will succeed with your evil plan. But it doesn't mean it will not turn back.

[Anux]

Maybe I'm just too pessimistic in my world view but I only see one big evil collapsing and the next already on the rise. Maybe in a few years russia is playing world police and our "journalists" get their first hand storys from the FSB and GRU instead of CIA and NSA. At least the russians take a little more effort in their propaganda, not that super stupid stuff they feed us now.

[tuxd3v]

And Putin has imperialistic resentiments are in mind. What was normal in times of Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire when slavery was part of live, should not be acceptable in XXI century, when we know slavery is not nessesary evil to run a country.

In my opinion, Putin is a man that had suffered a lot with the war we brought to is door in WWII.
He and many million Russians still suffer from the trauma that we created.
And probably he is worried that we are going for the same path, without learning nothing from history, with a difference..a lot of countries now have Nuclear Weapons.

If WWIII happens, we are the ones to blame, and don't come here saying that "ho no...we provoked no war.." cynicism..because we know very well who has created a army to attack donbass, and who is escalating the conflict..

Russia never had slaves...it is us in the west that where enslaving the African Continent for 500 years, and still trying to do the same today!
So don't blame again Russia for our own mistakes.