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Linus Torvalds Encourages Kernel Developers & Everyone To Get Vaccinated

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  • Originally posted by coder View Post
    ... Nonsense ...
    So A no the falsehood is that he personally earned money through vaccines, but of course the foundation did... the "debunked" part is that he personally earned money from it.

    B You cut shit very manipulative, I explicitly stated that:
    morally I personally find it stupid to have such rules and I don't judge him for that
    Yet you paint it as if I would have criticized him for that, which I did not do, either you have ADHD or have comprehension deficits or you cut this very manipulative, to win the discussion with debate tactics instead of real arguments, despite what I said you say:

    but there has been no allegation that the affair was non-consensual
    Not even the manipulative half sentence you quoted from me does make such a accusation, why do you bring up randomly rape (non-consensual)? I never hinted or said anything in that direction, the only reason I brought this thing up, is that other people (apparently including you) have very strange American moral views and see (boss has sex with a employee = at least evil if not rape).
    And that this people exist is not only obvious but you proofed my point, small minded American feminist people think in such situation automatically on rape, so now a nobel Price could overshine that for people that WRONGFULLY see him as unmoral rapy or at least unmoral person.
    Heck even cheating is something absurd in the US that people have to apologize here in Europe that is 100% between spouses nobody not totally idiotic would apologize to the public for his legal private live no matter what he does, if he did not break a law it's their private and nobody else's business.

    Your argument that there are no businesses that a foundation that get tax breaks because they claim to do good things that are evil enough because otherwise somebody else would do it, that's why in America torture is a accepted practise case by case if you can make a good case that it might help go for it, not against American citizens maybe and not by the normal police maybe, even we talk here only about specific things, American prisons are torture in itself and the death sentence is torture of course... but even more clear cut torture is seen as positive as long as it's done in guantanamo bay and some other places in the world by American agencies...

    And yes according to your logic if it would be 1940 we should all get stocks from nazi concentration camps and then give the money to some good cause to save animals... It's hard to argue against that... if that's your opinion I just can say we can agree to disagree on that, and that's it... It's like arguing with somebody that believes murder is a good thing why it's not... if it's not obvious then I find it not worth my time to come up with good arguments for it... the time investment vs effect of changing your opinion on this topic is to bad, especially if you are one of the only person on the planet that I would have to convince that investing in private prisons is not moral... so I would have to dig arguments up for only you and could never use this arguments ever again in any other discussion because nobody else would start a argument about it.

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    • Originally posted by coder View Post
      Either they agree with him or they just ignore him.

      Plenty of stories have been told by people who live with Q-Anon believers that they simply cannot be reasoned with. After a while, you either follow them down the rabbit hole or stop trying to pull them out. There aren't really any other options.

      BTW, the most successful ways of getting people to let go of such beliefs seem to be by engaging them in other social activities or pursuits. Not by taking on the conspiracy theories, directly.
      Maybe I am an exception, but I do not agree to this.

      I have been watching a lot of vids, and sites, also of people who do believe mouth mask work and who do believe there is a pandemic.

      I have found a lot of answers, but not to all my questions.

      I do not see any proof for a conspiracy, but I do see them fucking up with a pcr test, and claiming those people are infected with covid 19 and are contacious.

      I also see the msn refusing to make this distinction. Between a positive pcr test, and lets call it being ill.

      Why I care so much about this detail is because of all measurements in all countries are base on a wrongly used pcr test. The Gorman Drosten papers.
      The pcr test by it self is not the problem.

      Then a Dutch organisation, of which I have no idea on how to translate this into English (RIVM) , switched for their graphs, from people being hospitalized, to positive pcr test.

      Fast forward and back on topic, a vaccine is the only solution ? Well not for me.

      And I still do not believe the earth is flat nor that q is gonna safe us.

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      • Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
        So A no the falsehood is that he personally earned money through vaccines, but of course the foundation did... the "debunked" part is that he personally earned money from it.
        You say "of course" but I don't think anyone has shown evidence that suggests the foundation profited from vaccines either.

        There may be something down in the noise in the sense that the money managers for foundations & trusts tend to keep the money invested in a wide range of stocks and bonds so there might be an incidental benefit, but I have yet to see anything more than that.
        Last edited by bridgman; 04 July 2021, 11:13 PM.
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        • Originally posted by bridgman View Post

          You say "of course" but I don't think anyone has shown evidence that suggests the foundation profited from vaccines either.

          There may be something down in the noise in the sense that the money managers for foundations & trusts tend to keep the money invested in a wide range of stocks and bonds so there might be an incidental benefit, but I have yet to see anything more than that.
          I don't have to proof something when he bragged about it, the default is to believe Bill Gates, if you have proof that he lied... go ahead bring it on. Of course in a nonprofit they have to invest it again, I did not say that somebody got rich from it. And if it's false attack Bill Gates for pushing fake news. So he bragged about his foundation based on a lie? That would make him even more evil (if that is humanly possible).

          The corruption could be as simple as he is friends with managers or bosses from pharmacy companies and therefor he might even believe that it's best but they had access to him another form of corruption, the whole US Press is corrupt because of access journalism.

          I have not enough proof of evil wrong doing and some things are evil but still legal, so I don't have to proof anything, but if you create a monopoly you are by definition evil, especially if you do it by imoral means... when RMS correctly said the world is better because Steve Jobs died (be it only a little apple did not go away with him), of course he is evil, too. I tend to not dance on graves even if I dislike them, but it's hard to disagree.

          Just because we don't know in which way he uses his foundation evilly exactly in every way, if it's for access to governments to push policy (well in fact we know that he immorally influences governments) or he get direct money bags secretly from pharmacy companies... probably he wants different payments he has money enough, somebody that is a psychopath and evil megalomaniac I don't just believe he is good when he instead of paying high taxes gives that to independent foundations or other groups...

          You can't evilly earn money and take this blood money and claim to be a good guy for using that for good stuff, mafia does that, too sometimes to wash the money, for him it's partially green washing, but that alone would not be enough.

          While MS divested from "Microsoft NBC" I found that to my surprise:
          https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DLB-34357

          Comcast is the owner of MSNBC. So yes Bill gates Foundation pays money to MSNBC and they tell the world how great of a guy he is... of course only a coincidence, but heck I could also see them do that only because the rich are all in a big gangbang in America and the media says only good things about the rich, or they want just access to bill gates for stories therefor only tell nice things about him. You don't even need the direct hard corruption which I showed at least some evidence for, that is my problem did his foundation get "profit" to invest more from the vaccines or not... or did he lie there again, I could not care less, I just refuse to just accept that he is a great guy because this foundation existed and maybe with all the evil things they did including investing in private prisons or in that link invest in one of the most evil lying media organizations... maybe they did 1% more good by mistake than evil with that foundation I can't do the math... but I don't just repeat when one of this big companies says that he is a great man over and over again, non critically say "yes then it must be true they say it" like sadly most people do.

          And I don't have a long memory, you don't make one of the most evil companies Microsoft and do horrible things enslave billions of people take away fundamental freedoms and then I just accept that you are now good because you do charity, which by definition is bad, it takes huge amounts of money and invest it on bad places instead of the best places so with only parts of that money without this horrible wrong decisions of this evil rich man targeted on good projects you could to 10 times more good than this...

          If they wanted to be good just take the money and don't invest it in prisons or comcast or whatever... just build some houses and end homelessness in the US for a start... or give it a organization that is not tied to your evil name... they are friends with other evil people corporations so when they have any control over the organization it's by definition corrupt.

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          • Originally posted by coder View Post
            How can you have so much confidence in them?
            coder, you are an ignoramus and a manipulator.

            The above statement is my statement. You did quite a summersault to turn that argument around. YOU wrote now a couple of times "the science is solid". I did not dismiss that. All I'm saying is How can YOU have so much confidence in "them"? It's YOU that blindly trust in science. It is YOU that has too much confidence in "them". YOU throw out common sense and point to "science is solid". Are you earnestly asking for scientific reasoning to be skeptical?

            Normally I would refute every single point from your previous post. But I don't reply to prevaricators.

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            • Originally posted by Qaridarium

              right other people already said same in this forum topic... but the "Marxists" don't care and they don't want to know...
              You're quite right. I should have listened to you.

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              • Originally posted by lowflyer View Post
                coder, you are an ignoramus and a manipulator.
                I know it's hard to have your beliefs challenged, but the name-calling is really unjustified. I do hope you've got more than that, otherwise it sounds like you're done.

                There's certainly a lot I don't know. I'm always interested in learning, but we need to choose our information sources with care, because there's probably more bad information on the internet than good. If I'm wrong about something and someone can explain why, I'm certainly willing to listen.

                As for being a manipulator, I don't know where you get that. I state my case as clearly and plainly as possible and try to cite relevant facts when I can.

                Originally posted by lowflyer View Post
                All I'm saying is How can YOU have so much confidence in "them"? It's YOU that blindly trust in science.
                Blind trust is a step too far. I have faith in the scientific process, which has consistently demonstrated a tendency to converge towards a better and more complete understanding of the world. That's not to say there aren't sometimes missteps, scandals, etc., but it has a remarkable ability to self-correct unlike basically any other human institution. If you would engineer a machine to discover the secrets of life and the universe, powered by mortal and fallible humans, you could scarcely do better than the scientific process.

                The reason I say it's not not a blind trust is that science can be a bit messy and new findings can be noisy. We obviously need to look at what's being published with equal measure of curiosity and caution.

                Of course, you didn't answer my question, which is how you can so confidently cherry pick among studies and subscribe to the fringe position of a single person? All of the built-in self-corrective features of the scientific process which I've outlined are basically absent when some guy is just posting on the internet. You can't even verify his identity, credentials, or expertise.

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                • Originally posted by lowflyer View Post
                  You're quite right. I should have listened to you.
                  He's wrong. Not to accept the label of "Marxist", but I actually did look at the link, because I do want to know if it's relevant. As I looked further into the matter, it seems to me that it's not. But that's a conclusion I reached after looking into it.

                  BTW, do you realize that you're agreeing with someone who just claimed there "is no virus" and that the vaccines are full of graphene oxide to facilitate mind control by a trans-national cabal? I presume you don't agree with that, or else I don't know why you're concerned about mRNA. I'm probably not the one you should be worried about being an ignoramus or "not wanting to know".
                  Last edited by coder; 05 July 2021, 05:50 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by jacek23
                    I see little point to discuss it. Everyone is entitled to his opinion.
                    As long as there are points I can answer, I'll be here to answer them. There's a lot of bad information and uncertainty floating around. Maybe this thread can help clear up something, for someone.

                    Originally posted by jacek23
                    As long as COVID certificate is not a prerequisite of submitting a kernel patch why would anyone care?
                    If there's something easy we can do to prevent unnecessary death, suffering, and business restrictions & closures, then it's worth discussing. I think that's Linus' position, as well.

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                    • Originally posted by coder View Post
                      If there's something easy we can do to prevent unnecessary death, suffering, and business restrictions & closures, then it's worth discussing. I think that's Linus' position, as well.
                      My major point was that he did way more than that he claimed that germanies lower incidence that in summer now completely imploded to close to zero was mostly a result of the vaccine, even he has literally no evidence for it, but there is evidence that this sickness is very seasonable like the flu, and last year with no vaccines and way less and shorter radical lockdown in spring in germany, the numbers also gone to zero. So last year the numbers imploded without a vaccines because of the weather and this year it must be the vaccines. You can't make fun of somebody for maybe having a bad or questionable opinion say "don't talk about such stuff here" and then put out your own fake news.

                      I then have a different opinion of Bill Gates and I personally find it naive to believe he is a good guy, there is no scientific peer reviewed study if Bill Gates is evil or not, so that comes down to opinion, I would think that people that are on this side like linux and therefor hate windows... so I would expect people to be critical about gates and don't just believe the PR MSNBC and CNN and most medias from most other countries or high politicians that in one way or another are bought/corrupted by MS or Bill Gates would not be enough to just believe it, and I would not need perfect evidence that the evils this organization does outway the good, even if this organization would do 51% good and 49% bad, he would burn 98% of the money and only for every 100 cent he would do 2 cent worth good but of course ask to be praised for 100% and of course get advantages of it, like meeting leaders of other countries and has their ear, get lot's of positive PR for him etc and probably things we don't know yet. It's not a court case, so I don't have to assume innocent till perfect proof of all his evils, he did secretly evil things in the past (Halloween papers) so it's fair to assume that secretly more bad shit happens. But that don't has to be connected to covid, I just find it silly to make him a important voice that people listen to, when he is A not a expert on that field and B has a very evil past does at least partially horrible things with his foundation and imho is a through and through evil person.
                      But again we don't have to agree on the last part, even I wonder why you then are on this side if you like him and his work so much...

                      And there still stands point 1 with Linus that is the more important part to me. You can't pretend to be the voice of reason on this by making up fake news in the same post, that does just not fly.

                      Btw as long as the old and maybe some other risk groups are vaccined, the plague is not worse than the flu at least from the death numbers and "long covid" is A not studied well B overblown harmless 2 month cases with small headages for that long get mixed together with very few strong cases with lung problems or stuff, the science on this is at least no settled or even in a good state.
                      Last edited by blackiwid; 05 July 2021, 08:09 AM.

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