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Linus Torvalds Encourages Kernel Developers & Everyone To Get Vaccinated

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  • Originally posted by piorunz View Post
    Re-evaluation of existing results? They will have plenty to revaluate then... VAERS record:
    " Found 5,165 cases where Vaccine is COVID19 and Patient Died"
    Did you even read a single one of those search results? That's including patients with already life-threatening conditions. And guess who was the first demographic to receive vaccines for Covid-19? Elderly people in care homes!

    Secondly, that source hardly seems unbiased:


    • Originally posted by piorunz View Post
      I am not trying to prove anything. Is the vaccines who need to be proven safe first. So far, this is not the case. That's why I said that I rather wait to see the results first. Let volunteers go first and see how is spike protein treating them.
      Besides, vaccines are notoriously unsafe for humans, this is not me saying it, it's decades of scientific data:
      If we cannot even get 100% of people to agree the Earth is spherical, we're certainly not going to achieve that kind of unanimity on vaccine safety. As long as there are people willing to believe that "vaccines are notoriously unsafe for humans", there will always be those saying it. The more successful ones will support their case by twisting facts and figures to make themselves seem credible, and sprinkle in a few lurid anecdotes that might even be true, because bad things do ocassionally happen.

      Proper scientists will never use a phrase like "proven safe", because you can never prove even that a glass of water is 100% safe! They talk in terms like "extremely low risk of complications." Do keep in mind that 100% of people die. Anything with a significant net-positive impact on overall health and life-expectancy of individuals and populations is a good thing. There are several reasons why life expectancy has improved so greatly, in modern times, and vaccines are definitely one of them.

      In the end, you have to reach a point where you're willing to believe anything other than what the anti-vaxers are feeding you. Until you make that journey, I think there's nothing anyone else can say that will change your mind.


      • Originally posted by microcode View Post
        increased order for vaccines done as a stunt by the Biden Administration (they ordered 50% more than we already had ordered);
        1. Nobody knew how many other Operation Warp Speed vaccines would come through. If not all of them (and so far, just 2), then more doses were certainly needed.
        2. Nobody knew how long the antibodies from the vaccines would last. Having extra orders in the pipeline was an entirely prudent thing to do, in case people needed booster shots after 6 months or 1 year.
        3. Nobody knew which vaccines would be effective against new variants. If it turns out that one or two of the 3 vaccines we're using isn't, then it makes sense to have reserve supply of the other, while production is ramped up.
        4. There's never 100% delivery rate. Some doses will always get lost due to distribution inefficiencies, refrigeration failures, etc. You'd always need some excess, and that's the opposite of what we had -- not enough doses ordered, with no plans to obtain more.
        The main reason the US has vaccine on hand to donate is that we're not using the AstraZeneca vaccine we ordered. Also, there's been a bit less uptake on the others than they were hoping for.


        • Originally posted by cb88 View Post
          Is that so... its been over a year, my lifestyle has changed minimally. *still* no covid... the probability of getting covid itself is quite low unless you do certain things.
          Variants, such as the "Delta" variant from India and a hybrid of that and the UK variant that showed up in Vietnam are both more transmissible and more deadly. If you live in a low-vax area, your risk might not remain as low as you think.

          Originally posted by cb88 View Post
          I am concerned with the monetization of covid through vaccinations
          I'll bet you never looked at the cost of the vaccines relative to all the government spending that's gone into propping up the economy, or the health costs of caring for those who actually got ill. The vaccines are a massive cost savings.

          I truly hope you don't get this virus. And, on behalf of all of us who did take the vaccines to protect not only ourselves but also others, you're welcome.


          • Originally posted by fafreeman
            why michael keeps wanting to use his site for social activism is beyond me.
            If there's social activism in the free software community, is that not news? Regardless of which side you're on, would you really rather not be aware of it happening?

            I don't believe I know what Michael's position is on it. If I ask my inner cynic, I wonder if he might just be tapping into an emotive issue to lure clicks. However, I still think it's news, and I'd still like to have some idea of what's happening. I have encountered projects with a code-of-conduct, for instance, and it's helpful to know what that's all about and where they came from.

            Originally posted by fafreeman
            hot topics, controversial topics like this, should be avoided.
            Um, nobody is forcing you to read or post in this thread. If you'd rather avoid these topics, the power is in your hands! Just don't read the discussion, or maybe even the article! Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

            Originally posted by fafreeman
            as you can see from the "pro vaccine" crowd who get a slight pleasure of seeing people suffer.
            I don't. I've seen on TV where critically ill people express remorse for their disregard of the warnings and it just makes me sad.

            Originally posted by fafreeman
            no one in this thread is having a coming to jesus moment about anything. this entire thread is hate on both sides with both sides claiming the other side is hateful and not them.
            I don't hate anyone who is honestly trying to make the best decisions for themselves and their family. I try to offer counterpoints where I can, but it doesn't come from a place of hate.


            • Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Let's follow some of our recent 'science'.
              Okay, but the stuff about social media is not science. It just looks like you're trying to make up with quantity what your points lack in quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Moderna developed and released in 2 days.
              you can't really compare the development of mRNA vaccines with other types of vaccines. Moderna was founded 10 years prior, so they didn't invent the underlying technology in 2 days or whatever. A cool thing about mRNA vaccines is that it's easy to drop in the sequence for a different protein.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Vax is a defacto experiment.
              All vaccines, yes. There are various stages and trials. At some point, the evidence allows for an emergency use authorization, if the situation warrants it.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Human trials end in 2023.
              According to where? Moderna applied for full FDA authorization on June 1st.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              CDC stops recording vaccinated people that get CV19 as of yesterday.
              According to where? And is that just as a special case, or do you mean those people are excluded from the overall statistics?

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              First fully vaxed cruise line sets sail. CV19 sweeps through the population as of yesterday.
              They found 2 breakthrough cases, which is to be expected. The infected individuals do not have symptoms, which is also as expected and wouldn't necessarily be so, without the vaccine.

              Furthermore, I doubt the cruise passengers and crew really are 100% vaccinated. It's not that difficult to obtain a counterfeit vaccination card, unfortunately.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Emergency meeting held today at CDC due to vaccines stopping the hearts of 15-30 year olds.
              It's inflammation. According to what I can find:

              "The vast majority have recovered, but 41 had ongoing symptoms, 15 are still hospitalized, and 3 are in the intensive care unit."

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              Pharma companies indemnified if you have an adverse reaction.
              That's not science. That's something Congress did to remove disincentives from companies getting involved in vaccine development and manufacturing.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              I don't know what all this means, because unlike Rand Paul, I'm not a doctor.
              He received a medical degree in ophthalmology, in 1993. I don't know how much you remember from before 1993, but whatever he learned about virology, immunology, and epidemiology in medical school is probably long departed from his memory.

              Originally posted by ThoreauHD View Post
              But whatever mystery meat is in those vials sounds worse than CV19. At least you can get treated for CV19. You can't un-mRNA yourself.
              Well, that's an odd conclusion, as most of your points aren't even relevant to it.

              I think what we need to tease apart is what the mRNA does and what the other active ingredients in the vaccine do. The mRNA just tells your cells to make viral proteins, in order to train your immune system. The other main functional component of the vaccine then stimulates your immune system to mount a response. This is known as the adjuvant, and is likely the cause of most adverse reactions. The mRNA, itself, doesn't actually stick around very long.

              The adjuvant in Moderna is probably some standard ingredient, though a quick search isn't giving me a clear answer I trust. I am reading that the Pfizer vaccine doesn't use an adjuvant.


              • Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
                you all need to stop trying to guilt trip antivaxxers
                I am not trying to guilt-trip anyone. What I am doing is answering points I think are not accurate and likely harmful. All we can do is try to improve the information in circulation and hope people think more about their assumptions and decisions.

                Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
                they won't transfer it and get you killed, if you vaccine works anyway. they will transfer to other antivaxxers, and in which case they made their decision.
                There are three concerns I have about viral spread though the unvaccinated populations:
                1. I want to avoid unnecessary death and suffering. Especially if it's based on misinformation, that just make it even more depressing.
                2. I want to avoid infection of people who are not able to get vaccinated, or the immuno-compromised, in whom the vaccines do not work.
                3. I want to avoid the evolution and spread of ever more lethal and contagious variants, some of which the vaccines might not protect against.


                • Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
                  Wait, so now thy are saying it will no longer spread, when they said before it will spread, Now people are saying it won't mutate even though the vaccine does not kill the virus, I will concede if vaccines stop transmission, but we have been told by our public health officials that we will still transmit, and that the vaccine does not actually kill the virus, meaning it will mutate anyways. Yeah ill still wait a year or two to find out if it actually does or not.
                  The vaccine trains your immune system to fight it. That means most recipients' bodies will kill it either immediately or at least enough of it to keep the infection from becoming severe. However, there's some variation, because it depends on:
                  • how strong your immune system is, when you become exposed to the virus
                  • how many of the antibodies you made
                  • how many of the antibodies you still have (i.e. roughly how long ago you got vaccinated)
                  • how much of the virus you got exposed to (i.e. your "viral load")

                  Depending on those factors, a vaccinated individual can still get infected, and any infected individual can theoretically pass on the virus. However, if you immune system is keeping the infection level low, then you're less likely to spread it since your body isn't harboring as many virus particles.

                  With vaccination, the risks become low enough (both of chain transmission and of serious health impacts) that the US CDC issued a statement that fully-vaccinated individuals no longer have to wear masks, indoors.

                  So, vaccination is a big win for individual and public health, even if it's not an absolute.

                  By comparison, you know that people still die in car accidents, even when wearing seatbelts, right? But seatbelts significantly reduce the fatality of accidents. Just because they're not perfect doesn't mean they're not worth using.


                  • Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                    Because the vaccine don't stop the virus not 100% it puts a pressure of evolution on the virus so that mutants have more success. Now according to that "science correspondent" of NPR that should not be a problem because science creating new vaccines, but that does not negate the fact that "the vaccines [...] could drive the evolution of more mutants".
                    The vaccines tamp down the level of spread. With enough individuals that have immunity of one form or another, the virus will indeed fizzle out. 70% is the original threshold, though it'll increase with more contagious variants.

                    For the virus to mutate to the point where vaccines become ineffective, you need lots and lots of exposure events, and that happens primarily by failing to reach herd immunity (i.e. having a large number of unvaccinated individuals who keep exposing vaccinated people to the virus).

                    And the mutation it would cause is resistance to the vaccine. However, if you're anti-vax to begin with, then I don't see why you care if it's resistant to the vaccine. So, I don't really follow your logic.


                    • Originally posted by nokipaike View Post
                      So from 2020 onwards, the immune systems of people who overcome the disease are no longer able to extinguish pandemics naturally ...
                      If you're advocating for the "natural" approach to herd immunity, then you're saying you prefer many millions more people should die, rather than we take vaccines. That's simply not moral. A person can make their own medical decisions for themself, but who are you to decide that's a better course of action for entire societies than to develop and use vaccines?

                      The other thing you don't know is just how long natural immunity lasts. So far, it's looking like many who get the virus don't develop antibodies which last as long as those promoted by the vaccines. In that case, it's possible the virus just keeps circulating. And the longer it circulates, the more likely it mutates in ways that make it ever more contagious.

                      The worst assumption you seem to be making is that humans actually stopped all previous outbreaks with their immune systems. There's evidence of entire civilizations being wiped out by diseases. That's another way that previous disease outbreaks would end. Because we didn't have rapid forms of travel, disease didn't spread as readily so outbreaks tended to be more contained.