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University of Minnesota Linux "Hypocrite Commit" Researchers Publish Open Letter

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  • Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    they are writing followup paper "how to easily regain community trust by posting open letter"
    No they about to find out the reality that a ban like this cannot be reversed in under 2 kernel release cycles or 180 days and that is if you do all the right things.

    Linux kernel maintainers don't make snap judgements on this stuff in either direction.


    • Originally posted by tildearrow

      Please stop. There may be a lot of good commits in there, so this is just regressing rather than progressing.
      You may even end up breaking the kernel by doing that.......

      That's like if I were to not eat a fruit salad only because it has apples on it (but the rest of the dish is good).
      Normally, I'd agree, but in this case time is scarce and work is plenty, so unless someone steps up to re-review those commits (perhaps you?), it's best to remove them for now.


      • Originally posted by OneTimeShot View Post

        Ok - I'm going to tell you something really important I learned from my supervisor very early on at University:

        "The more flowery and complex the language you use to explain something, the less convinced your audience will be that you actually understand the material."
        I learned this one in 6th or 7th grade:


        Keep It Simple, Stupid


        • Originally posted by greg k-h
          Thank you for your response. As you know, the Linux Foundation and the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board submitted a letter on Friday to your University outlining the specific actions which need to happen in order for your group, and your University, to be able to work to regain the trust of the Linux kernel community. Until those actions are taken, we do not have anything further to discuss about this issue.
          I'm curious what those actions are.


          • Originally posted by ihatemichael View Post
            I'm curious what those actions are.
            You can bet some form of punishment for those who did the wrong thing is in there not just words of sorry. This will not be up for debate.

            Also the fact this bit "Linux Foundation and the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board submitted a letter on Friday to your University" means they have given up talking to the individual and its under the code of conduct.

            Yes its very simple to miss that Contributor can mean you as a Individual or the large entity you are part of in this case the University that will be held to account. Yes in this case the University now has to punish the Individuals that did wrong. If the University does not this could get way worse yet.

            You don't want legal involved with how much stuff the Linux kernel is using in the possible damages exceeds the total capital of all the Universities in the USA let along a single university. Remember the IBM/SCO case the legal firms behind Linux kernel are not scared by decades of litigation. Fun point if that happens the persons qualifications can be block from the courts from being issued before they are dead also all current qualifications rendered null and void by court order until case is resolved. I would not be past thinking that the Linux guys have asked for the people involved qualifications to be revoked.

            These actions have poked a very well resourced group.
            Last edited by oiaohm; 25 April 2021, 03:32 PM.


            • Originally posted by ddriver View Post

              If you need to check if the quality inspection of that manufacturer, then yes - that is the way. If it is a critical component, you cannot base safety on a long chain of "it is supposedly tested" - it has to be tested at every step. And how can you verify that it is tested at every step other than to... test every testing step. And you can't do that without sending defective units, to see if those get detected.
              what a bulls***. it's not your job to check the "quality inspection" of that manufacturer. why would a person in his sane mind think he has the rights to do so ??
              Last edited by stefansaraev; 25 April 2021, 04:10 PM.


              • Originally posted by andyprough View Post
                They should be unbanned. Cancel culture has no place in a software movement whose foundational concepts are all derived from freedom of speech.
                Uhh... I mean, an open source project like this is inherently editorial. Greg has no obligation to lend his "voice" to any given expression.

                I'm sure they will eventually be unbanned, but having your patches merged into upstream Linux is not a right, nor is it even desirable, if you have any interest in the quality of the finished product.


                • Originally posted by coder View Post
                  Wow, for an editor, you haven't been reading a number of recent articles very carefully. The article stated that he hadn't followed through on that particular threat. I'd imagine there would be objections raised if he started backing out a lot of good commits.

                  I think it was a threat made in anger, and sounds like it was effective in letting people know what was at stake.
                  Wow, for an editor, I am a big failure. Michael maybe take away my position.


                  • Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                    To be fair... firing 90% of the federal goverment bureaucrats probably would be a net benefit... too bad he didn't.
                    They tried government downsizing in the 1990s, but it ended up costing tax payers more to have the same services get outsourced and have to pay a 3rd party entity + the worker + a federal employee to ensure the contractors did the jobs they were hired to do.

                    If you mean just making government do 90% less, that would put us on a fast track to being a failed state. Most people have no idea of the multiplicity of ways their lives, jobs, and our modern systems depend on government. This message is being pushed by wealthy and powerful corporations and individuals because government is the only thing keeping them from fully exploiting the people to the fullest degree possible.

                    If you mean replacing bureaucrats with political appointees, that leads to politicization of the government and putting it in the pocket of whatever political party is in power. Having a non-partisan, professional federal workforce is far preferable to that. Government bureaucrats get attacked by the same forces that run contrary to the interests of the people, because bureaucrats are the front line workers of a government that's of the people, by the people, and for the people.

                    The libertarian wet dream is just that -- a dream. It never happened and it never could. What you want is effectively just for wealthy elites to have even more wealth and power, while the masses get squeezed, poisoned, flooded, and extorted.


                    • Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
                      Wow, for an editor, I am a big failure. Michael maybe take away my position.
                      That came across as harsh, but I had seen a couple other examples, lately. Still, I wasn't sure if I should say that bit.

                      Anyway, it was a fair discussion point and even though he hadn't reverted the commits, he still hadn't publicly reversed course. I expect the matter will quietly die down, unless more faithless commits are discovered.