Google Provides Funding For Linux Kernel Developers To Focus On Security

[coder]

You're trying to defend corporations who collect your data to train their AI which can influence your behavior.

I didn't defend the behavior, but I see it as mostly another example of unregulated markets engaging in a race-to-the-bottom. In that sense, it's not so different than other anti-social behaviors by big corporations, like tax-avoidance, pollution, lobbying, etc.

However, you didn't attack the corporations, you attacked the employees. It's hard for many to find a decent job at a company that's not involved in at least some sort of misbehavior, and there certainly aren't enough of those jobs to go around. Unless we're talking about something really bad, like pushing addictive drugs, I just think it's not helpful or fair to blame employees.

We could likewise blame consumers -- I'm sure there are lots of products and services you use, from companies with a less-than-stellar record.

However, neither is going to solve the problem. That will only come through regulation. The idea that a significant number of skilled employees will just quit their jobs at these firms is magical thinking and not doing anything to actually solve the problem you're so concerned about.

[qarium]

Hahahah, fuck off you deluded white supremacist.

ok the alternative is you use closed source windows and nvidia closed source.
thats is the way right now to support non-white developers.

if you use FLOSS you do support white males.

[FellowPenguin]

I didn't defend the behavior, but I see it as mostly another example of unregulated markets engaging in a race-to-the-bottom. In that sense, it's not so different than other anti-social behaviors by big corporations, like tax-avoidance, pollution, lobbying, etc.

However, you didn't attack the corporations, you attacked the employees. It's hard for many to find a decent job at a company that's not involved in at least some sort of misbehavior, and there certainly aren't enough of those jobs to go around. Unless we're talking about something really bad, like pushing addictive drugs, I just think it's not helpful or fair to blame employees.

We could likewise blame consumers -- I'm sure there are lots of products and services you use, from companies with a less-than-stellar record.

However, neither is going to solve the problem. That will only come through regulation. The idea that a significant number of skilled employees will just quit their jobs at these firms is magical thinking and not doing anything to actually solve the problem you're so concerned about.

You're making too many assumption about what I've said. Do you agree that AI can be used as a political weapon? Do you agree that more people should know about it?

[coder]

if you use FLOSS you do support white males.

Give it a rest, please. There's no reason to believe that race or ethnicity are predictive factors in one's involvement in open source. Short-lived, societal factors are likely to be responsible for any disparity in the current data.

As for gender, women are disproportionately involved in the not-for-profit sector and tend to be more community-oriented. Therefore, I'd expect the long-term trend will be towards a greater proportion of female developers involved in FOSS than in proprietary software development.

But I struggle to understand why you even went there. Do you really think you're going to change any minds? I think the only effect you're likely to have is that more people will ignore your posts.

[coder]

Do you agree that AI can be used as a political weapon? Do you agree that more people should know about it?

Sure, but we should also be focused on policy reforms to reign it in, rather than thinking that blaming and shaming will accomplish anything.

[qarium]

Give it a rest, please. There's no reason to believe that race or ethnicity are predictive factors in one's involvement in open source. Short-lived, societal factors are likely to be responsible for any disparity in the current data.

As for gender, women are disproportionately involved in the not-for-profit sector and tend to be more community-oriented. Therefore, I'd expect the long-term trend will be towards a greater proportion of female developers involved in FOSS than in proprietary software development.

But I struggle to understand why you even went there. Do you really think you're going to change any minds? I think the only effect you're likely to have is that more people will ignore your posts.

no i do not think i can chance his mind. but i see the statistic data of FLOSS developed by 80% white males and he really like to use FLOSS but he is anti-white-males.

"Short-lived, societal factors are likely to be responsible for any disparity in the current data."

maybe thisis true but maybe not. we just don't know it YET...

but right now FLOSS is driven by white males... and i find it funny that he hates whites males but he love FLOSS...

so instead of beeing best friends with white males who do FLOSS and say: YES together we can chance the world to a better place he just hates white males for beeing racist.

basically he calls me white racist just because i welcome him into the FLOSS world developed by white males.

[FellowPenguin]

Sure, but we should also be focused on policy reforms to reign it in, rather than thinking that blaming and shaming will accomplish anything.

I agree that government regulation is the best solution, but for that to happen we need to acknowledge the problem and spread awareness about it.

[Jabberwocky]

Give it a rest, please. There's no reason to believe that race or ethnicity are predictive factors in one's involvement in open source. Short-lived, societal factors are likely to be responsible for any disparity in the current data.

As for gender, women are disproportionately involved in the not-for-profit sector and tend to be more community-oriented. Therefore, I'd expect the long-term trend will be towards a greater proportion of female developers involved in FOSS than in proprietary software development.

But I struggle to understand why you even went there. Do you really think you're going to change any minds? I think the only effect you're likely to have is that more people will ignore your posts.

I do hope that these disparities are short lived too. Robert C. Martin claims by 1970 most CS & EE grads were male. In 1980 they had ~50 programmers and only 3 were women. He basically says it's because young men worked for less pay. Women were not interested and would rather do something else with their time. We can speculate if that was cultural or not. I'm guessing it was cultural, but honestly have no idea. https://youtu.be/ecIWPzGEbFc?t=2590

Robert C. Martin claims: "The craft of writing software remains roughly the same as it was in 1945". https://youtu.be/ecIWPzGEbFc?t=3505 I don't fully agree with him, maybe if you're writing low level code or software that would be used on function as a service platforms.

In my opinion: Today we have people getting paid big bucks to write JavaScript and PHP (I'm somewhat hypocritical here, just saying). Programming today is very different than what it was in the 70s and 80s. It's much more easier to write high level code and there's much more opportunities. There are many developers that don't care if their software uses orders of magnitude more system resources and their software are still popular (Electron framework for example). I know Robert C. Martin was focusing on the syntax and it has some resemblance to early code, but the way that it's being used in business... very different.

There's many people who don't get the respect or attention that they deserve. Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī and Dennis Ritchie did not appear in any of my study material never mind getting the average person to know about them and yet every single day most people on this planet depend on their work. Many of us have a passion in us to fight for what we believe is fair. I think it's important that everyone gets a chance to speak no matter how controversial it is.

I do believe that it's better to have diversity in all industries. It's sad that many companies and governments use a quota system which is evil IMO. It's not a good idea to rewrite history or to vilify people that talk about race or gender or what ever in a respectful manner. While this thread has gotten a bit out of hand (understatement). I'm glad that we are able to talk about differences. Unlike Google where you get fired if you just want to talk about differences in a respectful discussion. Burying your head in the sand would only make the problems worse.

[coder]

I do hope that these disparities are short lived too. Robert C. Martin claims by 1970 most CS & EE grads were male. In 1980 they had ~50 programmers and only 3 were women. He basically says it's because young men worked for less pay. Women were not interested and would rather do something else with their time. We can speculate if that was cultural or not. I'm guessing it was cultural, but honestly have no idea. https://youtu.be/ecIWPzGEbFc?t=2590

A Russian former-colleague of mine once mentioned that there were more women in Computer Science than men (in the late 1980's, I'm guessing?), since hardware design was seen as a "manly" endeavor and would tend to attract most of the guys. Sorry I can't provide any specifics, but I thought it was interesting.

[qarium]

https://youtu.be/xF_VYNtDgN8

Google is part of the NSA- Total Population control...

and now repeat: we are not Dictatorship with STASI/Gestapo secret service based state and we are not slaves we are free people.